# Should student athletes be paid? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 5, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922 "2015-04-05T22:48:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/41 "2015-04-06T02:03:46Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > They don’t get a free education. They get a free diploma. [stating the affirmative to your position]: sometimes the best way to make your point is with sarcasm! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/42 "2015-04-06T02:06:02Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Except that playing football, or wrestling or gymnastics is a privilege, unlike stocking shelves at Home Depot, which is as you describe, a job you do in exchange for compensation. No, it isn’t a privilege; it’s a uniquely skilled position which the school recruits them to fill, just like they recruit the President of the College or University. My cite that it’s a job is the fact that there are people doing the same thing for pay. The myth of the “student-athlete” is going away just like the myth of “unpaid interns”. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/43 "2015-04-06T02:08:39Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No, it isn’t a privilege; it’s a uniquely skilled position which the school recruits them to fill, just like they recruit the President of the College or University. My cite that it’s a job is the fact that there are people doing the same thing for pay. The myth of the “student-athlete” is going away just like the myth of “unpaid interns”. Gymnasts and wrestlers don’t have professional careers. If we are talking about Football and Basketball the problem is the term - student athlete - means you are neither fully a student nor fully a athlete. It’s a peculiar category. They do deserve to get paid but they do not deserve to be paid the same as professional athletes. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/44 "2015-04-06T02:13:36Z")
Practice hours are strictly regulated by the NCAA. There are no athletes working even 40 hours a week on their sport. No one is forced to play sports. Its their choice. And the connections they can make with alumni are out of the reach of most students. No one is exploited. No one is in indentured servitude. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/45 "2015-04-06T02:17:37Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Practice hours are strictly regulated by the NCAA. There are no athletes working even 40 hours a week on their sport. No one is forced to play sports. Its their choice. And the connections they can make with alumni are out of the reach of most students. > > No one is exploited. No one is in indentured servitude. Could you provide a little support for this claim. Even if it is my next door neighbor is an assistant basketball coach or my fraternity brother was on the baseball team or just that you read it a couple of different places… where do you get the idea that no student puts in 40 hours a week for their sport??? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/46 "2015-04-06T02:18:17Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Gymnasts and wrestlers don’t have professional careers. This will be news to all of the professional gymnasts and wrestlers in the world. Have you called a press conference yet to alert them all that they don’t have the careers that they are currently engaged in? > [@Robert163](#): > > If we are talking about Football and Basketball the problem is the term - student athlete - means you are neither fully a student nor fully a athlete. It’s a peculiar category. They do deserve to get paid but they do not deserve to be paid the same as professional athletes. So now you agree that they are employees who deserve to be paid, rather than employees who should not paid; that’s good. Progress! ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/47 "2015-04-06T02:21:22Z")
Also, if college athletes are to be paid, the uni should stipulate in their contract that a percentage of their pro money be returned to the school. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/48 "2015-04-06T02:22:32Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > This will be news to all of the professional gymnasts and wrestlers in the world. Have you called a press conference yet to alert them all that they don’t have the careers that they are currently engaged in? what careers are you referring too > [@](#): > > So now you agree that they are employees who deserve to be paid, rather than employees who should not paid; that’s good. Progress! I was being sarcastic ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/49 "2015-04-06T02:23:55Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Also, if college athletes are to be paid, the uni should stipulate in their contract that a percentage of their pro money be returned to the school. yes!!! ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/50 "2015-04-06T02:25:05Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Could you provide a little support for this claim. Even if it is my next door neighbor is an assistant basketball coach or my fraternity brother was on the baseball team or just that you read it a couple of different places… where do you get the idea that no student puts in 40 hours a week for their sport??? There is a 20 hour a week NCAA rule. Not that its always followed. But athletes are spared from having to work a menial job like most other middle class students. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/51 "2015-04-06T02:27:39Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > There is a 20 hour a week NCAA rule. Not that its always followed. But athletes are spared from having to work a menial job like most other middle class students. so you’re telling me that for a BIG 10 or SEC school you really think all they devote to football practice and weight training etc is 20 hours a week??? how is that possible with the addition of game time and travel time to away games? lets add studying the playbook and watching film as well. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/52 "2015-04-06T02:51:11Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Except that playing football, or wrestling or gymnastics is a privilege, unlike stocking shelves at Home Depot, which is as you describe, a job you do in exchange for compensation. You seldom get a concussion, or broken bones and pulled muscles, stocking shelves. BTW student athletes at top schools have a 17% lower graduation rate than non-athletes. [Cite.](http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2014/dec/30/jim-moran/moran-says-college-football-players-have-low-gradu/) ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/53 "2015-04-06T02:53:08Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > You seldom get a concussion, or broken bones and pulled muscles, stocking shelves. > BTW student athletes at top schools have a 17% lower graduation rate than non-athletes. [Cite.](http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2014/dec/30/jim-moran/moran-says-college-football-players-have-low-gradu/) good point ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/54 "2015-04-06T03:14:34Z")
I used to be against paying the players but after the NW students’ lawsuit I re-examined my thoughts and now I’m for it. At the top end everybody is making a boat-load of money–the schools, the coaches, the TV networks–except for the players themselves who can’t even sign autographs for favors. > [@Grotonian](#): > > Do you want all athletes paid, or just football and (men’s) basketball? Because I doubt there’s a field hockey team in the country that could maintain itself on the gate receipts and tv revenue it brings in. This could be the stickiest problem. One solution is to allow the players themselves decide. A player can opt to get paid (and stop attending classes but lose scholarships and must pay their own expenses) or to stay on scholarship (but not get paid). > [@Robert163](#): > > Actually I have no problem with Student Athletes receiving a small salary, I just think the idea that they are somehow being exploited is ludicrous. As is your idea that there is some type of burden attached to being a student athlete. Not that they don’t have difficulties. But the benefits far outweigh any hardship. I do believe they are being exploited. If I told you there is an industry where the (largely) black workers get paid almost nothing while the (largely) white establishment makes millions how would you react? I recently saw a map of the US states that listed the public employee of each state with the highest salary. All but one were football or basketball coaches. If Nick Saban is going to make $millions then his players should get paid. I’m surprised that the SDMB, being liberal-leaning, isn’t jumping all over this. > [@madsircool](#): > > Also, if college athletes are to be paid, the uni should stipulate in their contract that a percentage of their pro money be returned to the school. The schools would still get to keep the gate receipts and TV money. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/55 "2015-04-06T04:16:53Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Same question - why the cap? I don’t have a salary cap at my job, and I’m free to negotiate whatever the market will bear. I presume you are too. It’s true that the NFL and NBA have salary caps, but those caps are negotiated with the respective players’ unions - I don’t think that would work in the NCAA. What grounds do you have to arbitrarily limit their earning power to $100,000? The cap should exist to ensure competitive balance to some extent. Most huge schools can get $1.2mm or so for the 12 people on a basketball team for example, but that number would swell to insane amounts if it were uncapped. You’d have a handful of teams backs by crazy billionaires ensuring that only a handful have any chance. That’s not even getting into the fact that giving a 18 year old millions of dollars is almost always a terrible idea. Not sure why anyone would have an issue with this given professional sports have salary caps in many cases as well. > [@Robert163](#): > > The problem with this is boosters are going to give money, gifts, etc to the star linebacker, running back and quarterback and give jack s\_hit to the the offensive and defensive linemen. I doubt that the punter will be as well rewarded as the star receiver. Linemen would be greatly rewarded as they are in the NFL. The punter shouldn’t be rewarded as he is insignificant in terms of the financial success of the team. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/56 "2015-04-06T04:34:28Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I do believe they are being exploited. If I told you there is an industry where the (largely) black workers get paid almost nothing while the (largely) white establishment makes millions how would you react? I recently saw a map of the US states that listed the public employee of each state with the highest salary. All but one were football or basketball coaches. If Nick Saban is going to make $millions then his players should get paid. I’m surprised that the SDMB, being liberal-leaning, isn’t jumping all over this. Because I think you’re missing the brilliant socialism of the status quo. Football and men’s hoops bring in tens of millions (for the big programs), leaving the athletic programs awash in money (earned from the poorly-compensated sweat of black males). That money is used to add more athletic programs and world-class facilities. Thanks to Title IX, women’s programs have to be added at about par with men’s. So Michigan, say, has women’s swimming and diving, tennis, field hockey, lacrosse, ice hockey, volleyball, softball, golf, water polo, soccer, and other women’s sports I can’t think of. Would any of those women’s sports be able to support themselves? I doubt it. Where’s the money to come from, if we pay football players roughly what they bring to the University? As a Michigan taxpayer, I don’t want the UofM spending a million bucks for two lacrosse teams; cancel them both (the lacrosse players come mostly from the NorthEast, anyway,) and use that million to give scholarships to in-state kids. Or hell, return it to the taxpayers. The same could be done with every non-revenue-producing sport. From the black boys, according to their ability; to the white girls, according to their need. (I realize thousands of white males in water polo, diving, soccer, etc. also benefit from the status quo, but I don’t think very many people would object to canceling their sports for lack of money.) ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/57 "2015-04-06T04:39:26Z")
If the logic is it’s all for the love of the game, just a fun amateur league like a YMCA rec league that the locals can come and watch then the coaches and administrators shouldn’t get paid either. All this advertising revenue is a corrupting influence, get rid of that too. Fair’s fair. > [@Deeg](#): > > I’m surprised that the SDMB, being liberal-leaning, isn’t jumping all over this. The Dope isn’t that liberal. I don’t even know if this is a liberal issue. On a couple bball forums I visit a lot of them are for paying the athletes and they’re often times socially regressive. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/58 "2015-04-06T05:28:48Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > The cap should exist to ensure competitive balance to some extent. Most huge schools can get $1.2mm or so for the 12 people on a basketball team for example, but that number would swell to insane amounts if it were uncapped. You’d have a handful of teams backs by crazy billionaires ensuring that only a handful have any chance. That’s not even getting into the fact that giving a 18 year old millions of dollars is almost always a terrible idea. > > Not sure why anyone would have an issue with this given professional sports have salary caps in many cases as well. As I said earlier, salary caps in the professional leagues are collectively bargained between the leagues and their respective players’ unions, not arbitrarily decided by some dude on a message board. I’d fully back the NCAA if they chose to follow that path, but they’ve fought any move toward unionization by the players tooth and nail. Giving an eighteen year old millions of dollars might be marginally more foolish than giving a 22 year old millions of dollars (and we don’t bat an eye when that happens every year around draft time). Still, it’s a whole lot more ethical than giving him something he doesn’t even want and pocketing all the gate receipts for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/59 "2015-04-06T14:09:51Z")
> [@Salvor](#): > > There is no free ride there, they generate far more revenue than it costs the schools to provide, I thought this myth was put to bed a long time ago. [Myth: College Sports Are a Cash Cow](http://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/Myth-College-Sports-Are-a-Cash-Cow2.aspx) > [@](#): > > For almost every other university, sports is a money-losing proposition. Only big-time college football has a chance of generating enough net revenue to cover not only its own costs but those of “Olympic” sports like field hockey, gymnastics, and swimming. Not even men’s basketball at places like Duke University or the University of Kansas can generate enough revenue to make programs profitable. > > As a result, most colleges and universities rely on what the NCAA calls “allocated revenue.” This includes direct and indirect support from general funds, student fees, and government appropriations. In other words, most colleges subsidize their athletics programs, sometimes to startling degrees. It’s been discussed here. Like this post from 2005: > [@do college athletics really make money?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-college-athletics-really-make-money/317650/12): > > The book [College Sports, Inc](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0805014454/102-6381630-4861723?v=glance) talks about this. It’s been a while since I read it, but the basic conclusion was that only a few very successful college sports programs break even, and even then, they don’t take into account things like the cost of building stadiums, because that usually comes out of the general fund. That leaves the obvious question of why colleges put up with the likes of Bobby Knight if they’re not even making money - the answer given in the book was that a big-time college sports program drums up applicants who are not necessarily academically inclined, but like the idea of associating themselves with a famous sports school. Why that is considered a good thing, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922/60 "2015-04-06T14:43:39Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > I think the obvious solution is not to make colleges pay them, but rather allow them to be paid by others (eg. Boosters, fans, etc). The issue with having colleges pay athletes is that few athletes are valuable enough to deserve pay above and beyond a scholarship. You also get into title IX issues as well. The simple, short answer is to get rid of the prohibition on athletes accepting money, require the money be reported to the NCAA, and cap the gifts the can accept at some amount that isn’t too egregious (say, $100k). That way, if some billionaire wants to pay for great team, he can do so without taking money from tax payers. This is the obvious solution to me as well. 90+% of the problems had with NCAA violations has to do with money changing hands. In terms of a cap, I’m not willing to put a hard cap on, but perhaps there’s a level at which your scholarship get’s pro-rated down as you receive more income. You still have the restriction that the players cannot be Staff, they must be Students, but you take away the ridiculous restrictions on their ability to earn money from their status as popular entertainers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-student-athletes-be-paid/716922.md?page=4)