# Should students get 6 months in jail for saying the word 'Jesus'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612 "2003-11-05T20:32:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hydrocortisone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e19b73/32.png) [@Hydrocortisone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hydrocortisone)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/1 "2003-11-05T20:32:20Z")
> [@](#): > > In Texas, a U.S. District judge decreed that any student uttering the word “Jesus” at his school’s graduation would be arrested and locked up. “And make no mistake,” announced Judge Samuel B. Kent, “the court is going to have a United States marshal in attendance at the graduation. If any student offends this court, that student will be summarily arrested and will face up to six months incarceration in the Galveston County Jail for contempt of court.” [http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE\_ID=35420](http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35420) Should students get 6 months in jail for saying the word ‘Jesus’? What happened to the students First Amendment rights? ---
**Author:** ![MrTuffPaws](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@MrTuffPaws](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrTuffPaws)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/2 "2003-11-05T21:24:43Z")
I personally believe in the separation of church and state, and I think that if a student used the graduation for a bully pulpit for their religion, then they should be punished. Not with 6 months in the hole though. This would fall under the “cruel and unusual punishment” ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/3 "2003-11-05T21:31:38Z")
Having read past rulings by Kent, I question the seriousness of his statement… ---
**Author:** ![TaxGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@TaxGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaxGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/4 "2003-11-05T21:58:44Z")
Well, the way the material you quoted was written was not the most objective thing I’ve ever seen. I’d imagine that what the judge actually ordered was that no student offer a prayer during a speech at the graduation, and the reason for that is that a long line of precedent holds that praying at school-sponsored events violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. Although the Court’s never expressly stated it in these words, I believe the reason for the holding in these cases is that one shouldn’t be coerced (however slightly) to participate in a religious observance if one chooses to attend a government show. A prayer to a deity is a religious observance, and a public school graduation is a government show, so no one (including kids) should offer up a prayer in front of everyone at a school graduation. Therefore, the students’ First Amendment rights are actually being protected and not hurt by the judge’s order (assuming it actually existed; I live in TX and I’ve never heard anything about it). Perhaps it would be better if you got to the bottom of a story before immediately getting all outraged about it. (And yes, Kent’s a bit of a weird bird.) ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/5 "2003-11-05T22:06:33Z")
The whole article is suspect to me. I’d have to see cites from reputable news sources for those incidents before believing any of them. ---
**Author:** ![Ana\_Byrd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Ana\_Byrd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ana_Byrd)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/6 "2003-11-05T22:19:48Z")
Well, I support separation of church and state, and that’s why the state should stay out of this one. Prayers should not be led by public schools, but this isn’t the school; this is an individual. His constitutional rights were being protected by being sent to jail for saying a prayer? That’s twisting it. I actually had to check to be sure that wasn’t from a parody site. I still doubt its accuracy, though; the article is quite biased. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/7 "2003-11-05T22:50:28Z")
Damn rodents stole my much better post. You should always double-check and get the whole story when it comes to World Net Daily. They don’t seem to mind bending the truth or even lying when it is in Jesus’ name. I think they forgot one of the 10 Commandments. In 1995, Judge Kent issued a ruling concerning prayers at solemn occassions like graduations. He gave specific guidelines about what was allowed and what wasn’t. One of the guidelines he gave was that the prayers were allowed, but they couldn’t mention a specific diety. Anticipating a head-strong kid mentioning “Jesus”, Kent offered the warning above. The 5th Circuit in New Orleans affirmed his decision. When you get the whole story, the nature of the comments change quite a bit. Once again WND has twisted the truth into a lie and have a misleading impression of the ruling. Kent is a colorful judge. His orders are often humorous. Look some of them up for a laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/8 "2003-11-05T22:54:22Z")
No misspellings in the first one. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/9 "2003-11-05T23:32:31Z")
Just because a judge says something, is different than a judge ordering something. W/o context this isn’t enough to get my hackles up. “If so much as [extremely small violation] then I’ll [extremely harsh punishment],” is a common idiom. I believe that I’ve heard mothers threaten their own offspring with slow torturous deaths if even one peep were heard out of them. I’d guess that this an example of the use of just such an hyperbolic, metaphorical idiom. Further evidence could change my guess. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/10 "2003-11-05T23:47:09Z")
Yes. Students should get 6 months in jail for saying the word “Jesus”. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/11 "2003-11-06T01:06:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pizzabrat \* > \*\*Yes. Students should get 6 months in jail for saying the word “Jesus”. \*\* Well. Thanks for putting _that_ question to bed, **pizzabrat**. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/12 "2003-11-06T03:13:58Z")
> [@](#): > > In 1995, Judge Kent issued a ruling concerning prayers at solemn occassions like graduations. He gave specific guidelines about what was allowed and what wasn’t. One of the guidelines he gave was that the prayers were allowed, but they couldn’t mention a specific diety. Anticipating a head-strong kid mentioning “Jesus”, Kent offered the warning above. Sorry, but this explanation doesn’t make a bit of difference from the way WorldNetDaily phrased it. In both cases, the state is attempting to interfere with the free exercise of religion, specifically the Christian religion. Why it should make any difference that you can mention God but not Jesus is beyond me. Unless you want to argue that the State can establish some religions, but not others. If I were the valedictorian, I would begin my speech with something like - > [@](#): > > I would like to thank my parents for helping me be here today, and my Lord Jesus for making my life worth living. Praise be to His name! See? No one is forced to join in at all. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/13 "2003-11-06T03:41:23Z")
Hey, **Shodan** , suppose you’d spent your life being harassed by dirtbags using similar slogans as to what you would open your speech with? Suppose that these same dirtbags would **grab** you while you’re walking down the street and spend 15 minutes screaming in your face similar slogans? Suppose that family members or friends or people who shared a similar philosophy about life have been _killed_ by dirtbags espousing similar thoughts? Would _you_ want to hear that crap at your _graduation_? Maybe “no one is forced to join in at all,” but they still can be upset by those comments. Better they’re not said, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/14 "2003-11-06T03:46:38Z")
**pizzabrat** is obviously a cruel and sick person! Six months in jail for saying “Jesus” at a graduation? No way! I, however, can knock together a cross, and get some nails… Try six months on a cross for a _real_ test-of-faith. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/15 "2003-11-06T03:56:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Sorry, but this explanation doesn’t make a bit of difference from the way WorldNetDaily phrased it. Well, it does make a difference when we consider how WND _presented_ it. The article is presented as a dated news item (“WorldNetDaily Exclusive”) when it is worded more as an Op-Ed piece, but if one reads to the end it is in fact is nothing more than a cleverly worded teaser soliciting subscriptions to another WND publication. Furthermore, the judge’s decision is not dated in the article, leading one to believe that it and the other examples (also undated) are recent events. The fact that the ruling, if it occurred, was made in 1995 should have been mentioned. Now, with all that time having elapsed since, has somebody have news of a case where someone actually was criminally charged (not even sent to jail, just charged) for saying ‘Jesus’ at a graduation ceremony? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/16 "2003-11-06T04:04:50Z")
It should also be noted that this ghost of an eight-year-old case was resurrected by Ann Coulter, and picked up by WorldNotDaily. Making the way it’s presented oh-so-much-more understandable. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/17 "2003-11-06T04:49:27Z")
Why would the student get charged with anything? There’s no legal basis on which to fine the student. The only people who can be sued for violating anyones Constitutional rights is the government. I smell fake. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/18 "2003-11-06T05:05:57Z")
> [@](#): > > **Shodan** : Sorry, but this explanation doesn’t make a bit of difference from the way WorldNetDaily phrased it. > > In both cases, the state is attempting to interfere with the free exercise of religion, specifically the Christian religion. Why it should make any difference that \*\*you can mention God but not Jesus is beyond me. \*\* He said that you can’t mention the name of any deity. The example he gave was _Jesus_. But it was obvious from his ruling that you also couldn’t mention _Allah, Isis, Zeus, Odin_, any of the Hindu Gods and so forth. The ruling also protected students from prayers to _Satan, Lucifer, Old Scratch, Beelzebub_, demon gods, pagan gods, the golden calf, and Hollywood idols. Think of Judge Kent as being a cross between Imus and Judge Judy with a little bit of Judge Larry Joe thrown in. Don’t think of him as some deadpan overly straight-laced kinda guy. Did you even notice that the ruling allowed prayers at graduation? Have you ever been in a situation where you personally were prevented from praying? _Honestly_? At a group gathering such as graduation, it is not only _your_ rights which have to be considered, but also the rights of everyone whose presence is required. Since we can’t know the beliefs of _everyone_, the only fair thing is not to get too specific or – another possibility – to pray silently. What is wrong with either of those? Or do you look forward to a time when black candles and pentagrams will be able to have equal time with Christianity and the worship of dung beetles? ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/19 "2003-11-06T05:11:25Z")
**Apos** , violating a judge’s order is called “contempt of court,” and can, indeed, net you a jail sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612/20 "2003-11-06T05:31:23Z")
Not on bullshit grounds, it can’t. A judge can’t just arbitrarily order any random free citizen to do or not do something just because he feels like it, certainly not when that thing is happening outside his courtroom. That would be a ridiculous abuse of his power. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-students-get-6-months-in-jail-for-saying-the-word-jesus/211612.md?page=2)