Should Sulu be gay?

Cafe Society
101

A permanent complaint of nerds, SciFi fans and assorted other weirdos here in Spain is that when TV shows any space operas it’s always at some ungodly hour, often out of sequence, sometimes without warning. For example, they’ll show a chapter of one of the Star Trek series at 4am on a Wednesday, a chapter from the same series but another season at 4am the following Wednesday… by which time word starts spreading and people set their VCRs for next Wednesday at 4am and get some Trek…

and then, on what would have been the 4th week of geeky goodness, they go and cancel it because it “doesn’t have enough audience” :smack:

So, Trek is a widely-known reference, but not really a widely-viewed series. Still, my first news that the guy playing Sulu is gay was this thread; and much as I try, I fail to see what’s that got to do with the price of beans or with the character’s own sexuality.

The main complaint of most actors who’ve had long runs in TV series is that people mistake them for the character… you guys really think that the guy playing Monk is that weird irl? Or, that because he isn’t, he shouldn’t play a character who is?

102

[QUOTE=Otto]
Sulu had no such on-screen romances or backstory.
[/QUOTE]

Mirror Sulu did have a crush on Uhura, though, who seduced him to lure him away from his station on the bridge. I still say this question wouldn’t have arisen had George Takei not come out.

103

[QUOTE=Captain Amazing]
Mirror Sulu did have a crush on Uhura, though, who seduced him to lure him away from his station on the bridge. I still say this question wouldn’t have arisen had George Takei not come out.
[/QUOTE]

The question of gay Trek characters in general and specific has been around the fan community forever. There’s a very significant LGBT and allies subset in Trek fandom. Takei’s coming out has given their opinion some visibility, that’s all. It hasn’t summoned them from some fabulous netherworld where they wait for people to come out and then start demanding the name of the show have the words ‘And the Gay Guy’ added to it.

And the issue of why the availability of a gay actor makes the potential of a gay character more plausible has been covered repeatedly in this thread. Polycarp’s list of straight actors willing to play gay speaks for my point in its brevity, as does the fact that the few recent times it has happened it’s still been big news.

Absolutely no one is saying that Sulu should be gay because Takei is gay. That is a mischaracterization those opposing continue to make, but it’s been covered more than sufficiently. It’s starting to sound like some people think Sulu can’t be gay because Takei is, which doesn’t make a lick of sense.

104

I’m familiar with the whole gay Trek issue. Heck, I even agree with it. There should be openly gay characters and gay relationships in Star Trek, and the way that the franchise has dealt with it, especially in the Berman and Braga era, has been pretty weaselly and distasteful.

My problem with the “Lets make Sulu gay” thing is this, though. The Original Series is over. The show ended 40 years ago. There hasn’t been a film with original series characters in 12 years (and Generations was really a Next Generation movie with Kirk. I don’t think Sulu was even in it)., and there’s no intention to make any more television shows or movies with the Original Series characters (with the possible exception of the “Kirk and Spock in High School” rumor that’s been going around). So there’s really no good way to make Sulu gay. It’s not like they can write gay or romantic storylines for him in the episodes that aren’t being produced with him in it.

I’m against it because it really doesn’t do anything for the gay Star Trek cause, other than to give the people in charge of the franchise another chance to say, “But we ARE concerned about the issue. We had the androgynous alien in that Next Generation episode, and, oh yeah, even though we didn’t address it at the time, and you wouldn’t know it from watching any of the produced work, it turns out Sulu was gay.”

If the goal is to really have gay Star Trek characters, then lets actually have gay Star Trek characters, in current roles, in a new series, where attention can actually be paid to their sexuality.

105

[QUOTE=Captain Amazing]
Mirror Sulu did have a crush on Uhura, though, who seduced him to lure him away from his station on the bridge.
[/QUOTE]

And since approximately 99.99% of the characters in the Mirror Universe seemed to have opposite sexual orientations from their mainstream universe counterparts, that stands as evidence in favor of our Sulu being gay! Ha! I’ve run rings around you logically!

The question about Sulu’s being gay may not have arisen but the issue of LGBT representation in Trek has been around for a couple of decades. Hell, I even made noises about submitting a Next Gen spec script that included gay characters that I still think would work today. Unfortunately, it turns out that as a scriptwriter I kind of, well, suck, so nothing ever came of it. But it woulda been cool. It had homos and Romulans!

106

[QUOTE=Captain Amazing]

I’m against it because it really doesn’t do anything for the gay Star Trek cause, other than to give the people in charge of the franchise another chance to say, “But we ARE concerned about the issue. We had the androgynous alien in that Next Generation episode, and, oh yeah, even though we didn’t address it at the time, and you wouldn’t know it from watching any of the produced work, it turns out Sulu was gay.”
[/QUOTE]

I’m not for just declaring it either. As has been explained, no one can just declare Sulu gay. He would have to appear in new content for this to happen at all, of course. If not for this, I would definitely agree with your objection. The thing is, we’re not going to see a new Trek series for a long time if ever again, but it is possible that Sulu could show up along with other older characters in upcoming movies. The fact that he’s stone dead in Trek-present is no obstacle at all in this universe, of course.

107

[QUOTE=Otto]
And since approximately 99.99% of the characters in the Mirror Universe seemed to have opposite sexual orientations from their mainstream universe counterparts, that stands as evidence in favor of our Sulu being gay! Ha! I’ve run rings around you logically!
[/quote]

Curse you and your logic, Otto. :slight_smile:

[/quotethe question about Sulu’s being gay may not have arisen but the issue of LGBT representation in Trek has been around for a couple of decades. Hell, I even made noises about submitting a Next Gen spec script that included gay characters that I still think would work today. Unfortunately, it turns out that as a scriptwriter I kind of, well, suck, so nothing ever came of it. But it woulda been cool. It had homos and Romulans![/QUOTE]

I know it has. I just don’t think the Sulu thing is the best way to do it. Your script, on the other hand, sounds cool. Anything with gays and Romulans just has to be good, by definition.

This is sort of an aside, but I do think that Star Trek had one episode where they did do good on an LGBT issue. There was an early, fairly stupid Ferengi episode of Deep Space 9. The Ferengi are really horrible mysogonists, and don’t give Ferengi women any rights. So, there was this one Ferengi woman who disguised herself as a man, and went to go work for Quark, and ends up falling in love with him.

Anyway, there’s one point in which she, still disguised as a man, is sitting and talking to Lieutenant Dax. She’s been keeping it a secret for the entire episode. So, finally, she can’t keep it a secret anymore and blurts out that she’s in love with Quark. Dax asks if Quark knows, and the Ferengi says, “He doesn’t even know I’m a woman.” Dax gets this bemused look on her face, and says, “Wait, you’re a WOMAN?!” It was just a nice moment, and unfortunately, there were too few of them during the franchise.

108

[QUOTE=Loopydude]
But for Og’s sake, now they’re going to make a movie about the Kirk’s and Spock’s teen adventures, or some fucking thing.
[/QUOTE]

I give you Kock, Son of Kirk and Spock

109

I kind of thought that before it became common knowledge that Takei was gay, the center of gay fan imagination was the Kirk/Spock/Bones triangle.

Oh, & Mirror Universe Kira Nerys. Duh.

110

[QUOTE=Ensign Edison]
And now I’m sure someone will be along shortly with a list of episodes in which clowns appear.
[/QUOTE]

I can only think of one, in VGR “The Thaw,” and he was not the kind of clown that the kiddies would love: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:Clown.jpg

I don’t have a problem with “making” Sulu gay, if Takei had no objection. I agree there’s nothing in ST canon to prohibit it (including his flirting with Uhura, and having a daughter). If Paramount signed off on it too, the “Sulu is teh gay” meme could appear in some future book… but it still wouldn’t be ST canon. Maybe a young, obviously gay Sulu could appear in the upcoming “Academy 90210” movie? But then why would he have seemed to be closeted in all other TV and movie appearances?

Better, I think, to have a new gay character in some future incarnation of ST. It’s long, long overdue.

BTW, I always understood that Gene Roddenberry’s and David Gerrold’s falling-out was because GR wouldn’t go forward with an AIDS-allegory script involving Regulan bloodworms which DG wrote for TNG, and GR’s perception that DG was getting too big for his britches and claiming to be “TNG head writer” or the like when GR had awarded him no such title.