# Should the Bahamas be deemed uninhabitable for humans and be quarantined? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 15, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271 "2019-09-15T16:26:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/1 "2019-09-15T16:26:27Z")
It seems like to me that the Bahamas is pretty much uninhabitable for long-term residency. No one knows how long it would take to repair everything, and even if it does, I don’t think there’s enough money to actually do it with improved building codes, so it’s just going to be susceptible to something like Dorian happening again. I don’t think it’s practical to live in the Bahamas anymore, as an outsider looking from the United States. Unless stuff gets built with much stronger building codes than are even present in Florida (and Florida’s is one of the toughest), it’s all still going to be vulnerable to being wrecked again. There are some places on Earth where it’s just not practical to live anymore. Florida is still doing fine in that respect because most hurricanes weaken by the time they hit the state and don’t stay category 5 for long, and it’s in a First World region so recovery is typically swift and relatively painless. Although with rising seas, the Miami area might be uninhabitable within the next century. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/2 "2019-09-15T16:41:23Z")
By whom? This is a serious question. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/3 "2019-09-15T16:48:11Z")
You do realize that not all of the Bahamas was severely affected? There was a lot of damage to the northern part of the country on the islands of Abaco and Grand Bahama. Effects were less severe to the south, including the capital of Nassau on New Providence and Andros, and the rest of the archipelago. Rising sea levels over the next century could well make the Bahamas uninhabitable over the next century or two, but calling them uninhabitable and calling for their total evacuation just on the basis of Dorian is a wild over-reaction. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/4 "2019-09-15T17:06:14Z")
You don’t need all buildings resistant to hurricanes: just an adequate number of hurricane shelters and law enforcement requiring people to use these shelters. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/5 "2019-09-15T19:55:20Z")
The Bahamas have been populated for a long, long time. And has suffered through many hurricanes. It’s up to the people who actually live there to decide if they want to continue doing so. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/6 "2019-09-15T20:28:19Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It’s up to the people who actually live there to decide if they want to continue doing so. This. They are a sovereign nation. While the rest of us can make decisions about how much and what kinds of help to voluntarily offer it’s still their nation. A body like the UN Security Council could try to do something like pass a resolution to do that. I don’t see it passing. Setting a precedent for the UNSC just unilaterally ending the very existence of a nation-state is deeply troubling for the international order. What would you do **R3d** if they told us to fuck off and went on inhabiting their country? Invade? Kill their security forces? March their people at bayonet point to the docks to be shipped who knows where? Don’t pass resolutions that you aren’t prepared to enforce. Not my circus. Not my monkeys. Not my decision. ---
**Author:** ![kirkrapine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@kirkrapine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirkrapine)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/7 "2019-09-15T21:01:33Z")
Does this mean Disney has to shut down Atlantis? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/8 "2019-09-15T21:02:21Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You do realize that not all of the Bahamas was severely affected? There was a lot of damage to the northern part of the country on the islands of Abaco and Grand Bahama. Effects were less severe to the south, including the capital of Nassau on New Providence and Andros, and the rest of the archipelago. Right, and 70% of the population lives on New Providence. Why would the OP think we should “quarantine” the whole country? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/9 "2019-09-15T21:09:47Z")
I have no problem with the non-coercive version of this … not _compelling_ people who live in climate-change-effected and other marginal-dangerous areas to move out, but \*allowing \*them to do so. As far as I know, this second proposal has not been implemented in any meaningful way. What would the response of a US customs official be right now, if a Bahamian turned up at the border requesting US permanent residence on the grounds that their home is uninhabitable and too dangerous to live in? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/10 "2019-09-15T21:18:15Z")
Of all the countries which should be condemned in this manner, the Bahamas isn’t even on the list. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/11 "2019-09-15T22:33:55Z")
How about Puerto Rico? Tortola? Caymans? Tuvalu is in much more dire straits, due to rising sea levels. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/12 "2019-09-15T22:43:13Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > I have no problem with the non-coercive version of this … not _compelling_ people who live in climate-change-effected and other marginal-dangerous areas to move out, but \*allowing \*them to do so. > > As far as I know, this second proposal has not been implemented in any meaningful way. What would the response of a US customs official be right now, if a Bahamian turned up at the border requesting US permanent residence on the grounds that their home is uninhabitable and too dangerous to live in? Right this very moment, the response would probably be “Why didn’t you request asylum in Canada / Mexico?” ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/13 "2019-09-15T23:27:21Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > What would the response of a US customs official be right now, if a Bahamian turned up at the border requesting US permanent residence on the grounds that their home is uninhabitable and too dangerous to live in? Customs would check to see if you have more than $10K in cash, live plants, produce, animals, etc. Nothing to do with immigration or asylum. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/14 "2019-09-15T23:57:57Z")
Note that it is possible to build dwellings and commercial building that can take a direct hit from most hurricanes and survive with only minor damage. Examples: > **[Among the Ruins of Mexico Beach Stands One House, Built ‘for the Big One’...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/14/us/hurricane-michael-florida-mexico-beach-house.html)** > > Hurricane Michael wrecked every other beachfront house on the block, but one came through the storm nearly pristine, as if protected by grace. How did it survive? Most brutalist architecture buildings are perfect for this [The 9 Brutalist Wonders of the Architecture World | GQ](https://www.gq.com/story/9-brutalist-wonders-of-the-architecture-world) The main thing they will need is hurricane shutters (metal barriers mounted above each glass window that will [unroll automatically](https://amdaluminum.com/products/hurricane-shutters-miami-fl/roll-down-hurricane-shutters/) if sensors detect high winds or from building control panels.) Then, obviously any electrical distribution or mechanical equipment needs to be mounted on the second or third story or higher. (the bottoms floors can be for parking and/or temporary shops) ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/15 "2019-09-16T01:22:48Z")
> [@kirkrapine](#): > > Does this mean Disney has to shut down Atlantis? Disney doesn’t own Atlantis, so no. It’s owned Brookfield Asset Management and operated by Marriott. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/16 "2019-09-16T02:37:33Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > I have no problem with the non-coercive version of this … not _compelling_ people who live in climate-change-effected and other marginal-dangerous areas to move out, but \*allowing \*them to do so. > > As far as I know, this second proposal has not been implemented in any meaningful way. What would the response of a US customs official be right now, if a Bahamian turned up at the border requesting US permanent residence on the grounds that their home is uninhabitable and too dangerous to live in? [https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-world-isnt-ready-for-climate-refugees/amp/](https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-world-isnt-ready-for-climate-refugees/amp/) > [@](#): > > … Technically, in the context of legal and political systems, climate refugees don’t exist. There’s no space for them in international law and no special plans for how to treat them in the United States when they arrive. Here and around the world, fleeing climate change means running to bureaucracies as inhospitable to your survival as the places you left behind. … > > … So climate change migrants are stuck in a legal and political gray zone. Our systems aren’t designed for them. Changing those systems would be complicated, inconvenient and expensive. Efforts to create frameworks to take them into account run into opposition — such as the U.N. compact on migration that was signed last December, which was rejected by the U.S. and other countries most responsible for the changing climate. … Many areas will become gradually progressively less habitable. Rebuilding foolish to do and no affordable alternatives. There will be more and more climate refugees. The world is not yet prepared for this. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/17 "2019-09-16T03:00:57Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > [Redirect Notice](https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-world-isnt-ready-for-climate-refugees/amp/) > > Many areas will become gradually progressively less habitable. Rebuilding foolish to do and no affordable alternatives. There will be more and more climate refugees. The world is not yet prepared for this. What is particularly unfair is, look at this list : [Each Country's Share of CO2 Emissions | Union of Concerned Scientists](https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/each-countrys-share-of-co2.html) What do you notice? For the most part, the countries doing most of the \*emitting \*are going to be _least_ affected by the crisis they created. It’s because most of the countries in this list are wealthy, and thus have available the funds and the access to technology (and in the case of the big boys like USA, China, Japan, Germany, and so on, the resources to invent and engineer new technology as needed) to mitigate most of the negative effects. The big boys can air condition entire cities, if necessary. (by interconnecting all the buildings with tunnels or having fleets of autonomous air conditioned cars used for all the transport, with the cars picking people up in indoor areas). Grow all their crops indoors in robotic farms. Build armored cities that can withstand routine storm impacts. Build new cities farther inland as the sea comes in. The people who will really suffer will be the “have nots” left out in India, and a bunch of African and central American countries which aren’t even _listed_ as significant GHG emitters (because they are poor). ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/18 "2019-09-16T03:39:32Z")
Another thing to keep in mind is that news coverage concentrates on the areas with the most destruction and mayhem. They often give a misleading picture of places hit by hurricanes and other natural disasters. For example, while hurricane Harvey was very destructive in Houston, the whole place didn’t flood- most of the flooding was limited to known low spots and areas in proximity to creeks, bayous and streams. Plenty of areas were effectively untouched- my parents’ house had the water get into the yard, but that’s not really remarkable- that may happen during a good tropical storm or even a heavy thunderstorm. Otherwise, they didn’t lose power or suffer any flooding in their neighborhood. And that wasn’t an unusual state either. But the news would have had you believe that the entire city was under 4 feet of water. I wouldn’t be surprised if something similar may be going on in the Bahamas as well. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/19 "2019-09-16T03:54:23Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Another thing to keep in mind is that news coverage concentrates on the areas with the most destruction and mayhem. They often give a misleading picture of places hit by hurricanes and other natural disasters. > > For example, while hurricane Harvey was very destructive in Houston, the whole place didn’t flood- > **[Hurricane Harvey | Houston metropolitan area flooding](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Harvey#Houston_metropolitan_area_flooding)** > > Many locations in the Houston metropolitan area observed at least 30 in (760 mm) of precipitation, with a maximum of 60.58 in (1,539 mm) in Nederland. This makes Harvey the wettest tropical cyclone on record for both Texas and the United States, surpassing the previous rainfall record held by Tropical Storm Amelia. The local National Weather Service office in Houston observed all-time record daily rainfall accumulations on both August 26 and 27, measured at 14.4 in (370 mm) and 16 During the stor... Houston had **35%** of the main county flooded. It had actual waves and whitecaps on I-10. It damaged 204,000 homes, and caused somewhere between 125-198 billion dollars in damage. Now, yes, 2 homes my family owns in Houston were not flooded. But one of them, the immediate neighbors were, and in the other, the entire neighborhood a mile away was completely flooded. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271/20 "2019-09-16T08:29:17Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > As far as I know, this second proposal has not been implemented in any meaningful way. What would the response of a US customs official be right now, if a Bahamian turned up at the border requesting US permanent residence on the grounds that their home is uninhabitable and too dangerous to live in? They likely wouldn’t even get that far these days - there was a well-publicized incident where Bahamian refugees boarding a boat in the Bahamas were told to get off if they didn’t have a US entry visa in hand. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-bahamas-be-deemed-uninhabitable-for-humans-and-be-quarantined/840271.md?page=2)