# Should the ban on sales of pornography to minors be lifted? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 28, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083 "2011-06-28T01:11:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/41 "2011-06-28T21:47:33Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Could he have been talking about Manhunt? Maybe he _thought_ there was shit like that in Manhunt, but there definitely isn’t. All of the killing in that game is against armed enemies. They don’t make video games where you blindfold, torture and kill an innocent woman. It’s a great game, by the way; I still play it sometimes. Crank up the volume and turn off all the lights at night to get the full effect. The spooky atmosphere is very well done. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/42 "2011-06-29T02:29:33Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Show me where the First Amendment makes an exception for material deemed obscene. The fact is, the First Amendment forbids censorship, period. One of the very few points on which I and the Supreme Court agree. The law is simple, direct and clear. If you don’t understand, it’s because you don’t WANT to understand. Well, I didn’t realize that you wanted to interpret the First Amendment as a textual naïf, rather than [the way the Supreme Court has consistently ruled on it.](http://supreme.justia.com/us/354/476/case.html) But how is it that you believe the words _shall make no law_ should be interpreted literally but not the word _Congress?_ After all, the California Assembly made the instant law, not “Congress.” **Max Torque,** thanks for the reference. I had forgotten about the 1968 decision [_Ginsberg v. New York,_](http://supreme.justia.com/us/390/629/) which upheld exactly such a statute. You gotta love the fact that the Texas statute allows a boy to buy porn if he brings his wife with him. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/43 "2011-06-29T05:21:48Z")
> [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > Well, I didn’t realize that you wanted to interpret the First Amendment as a textual naïf, rather than [the way the Supreme Court has consistently ruled on it.](http://supreme.justia.com/us/354/476/case.html) But how is it that you believe the words _shall make no law_ should be interpreted literally but not the word _Congress?_ After all, the California Assembly made the instant law, not “Congress.” Well when the language is so clear and concise it’s not naive to interpret it as if it were, you know, written to mean what it clearly says. The Supreme Court has consistently gotten it wrong on issues of censorship, so what? They got SLAVERY wrong for a long time, too. As for the “Congress” issue, yes, the law clearly only refers to Congress, I imagine the argument is that if the states could create laws in direct opposition to Congress, there would be no point in having a Congress, would there? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/44 "2011-06-29T05:37:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Because if little boys are allowed to see titties, civilization as we know it will end. Or so I’ve heard… It isn’t about men and breasts. It’s about about boys who are showed scenes of sex that rarely play out in real life. Do you want your son thinking that women are there for double penetration, girl on girl, blowjobs at work, and rape play? While children are entitled to constitutional rights, they don’t have _all_ of the same rights as adults. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/45 "2011-06-29T05:50:05Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > It isn’t about men and breasts. It’s about about boys who are showed scenes of sex that rarely play out in real life. Do you want your son thinking that women are there for double penetration, girl on girl, blowjobs at work, and rape play? Kids consume plenty of unrealistic fiction… Also, no horny teenager has ever watched a porno and thought afterwards “Man, I can’t wait to finish college and get an office job; nonstop blowjobs at work, according to this documentary”. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/46 "2011-06-29T06:15:26Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Kids consume plenty of unrealistic fiction… > > Also, no horny teenager has ever watched a porno and thought afterwards “Man, I can’t wait to finish college and get an office job; nonstop blowjobs at work, according to this documentary”. Oh dear. Would you want your 16 year old daughter going out with a kid who had been regularly watching porn since the age of 12? Anal sex, double penetration, rape, subjugation of women…? Kids are notorious for making bad decisions, especially with their body parts. Let’s not help their stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/47 "2011-06-29T06:18:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Anal sex, double penetration, **rape,** subjugation of women…? Are you under the impression that mainstream porn has _rape_ in it? I don’t doubt that there’s some fringe shit with simulated rape, though I have never seen it, but this is not what the majority of people are getting off to. Similarly, the majority of porn has nothing to do with “subjugation of women.” ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/48 "2011-06-29T06:18:56Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Oh dear. > > Would you want your 16 year old daughter going out with a kid who had been regularly watching porn since the age of 12? > > Anal sex, double penetration, rape, subjugation of women…? Well, her father married someone who’s been reading, watching, and writing pornography since age 12 or so, so I guess I’d just tell her to be careful and use her head. But at any rate, the question isn’t “Is porn good or bad for kids?” The question is whether porn is protected speech. I can’t see any good reason for it not to be. (And I believe you need an excellent reason to classify any speech as not being protected.) ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/49 "2011-06-29T06:35:40Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Are you under the impression that mainstream porn has _rape_ in it? I don’t doubt that there’s some fringe shit with simulated rape, though I have never seen it, but this is not what the majority of people are getting off to. > \*\* > Similarly, the majority of porn has nothing to do with “subjugation of women.”\*\* I’m under the impression that 13 year old boys aren’t mature enough to filter their own porn. The statement I just bolded leads me to think you watch porn. 😃 We obviously haven’t seen the same stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/50 "2011-06-29T09:00:22Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Would you want your 16 year old daughter going out with a kid who had been regularly watching porn since the age of 12? Why would this be a concern? What do you think is going to happen to her if she goes out on a date with that kid? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/51 "2011-06-29T10:01:40Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > World of Warcraft has for more than 2.5 years included at least one quest ([The Art Of Persuasion](http://www.wowhead.com/quest=11648)) that requires you to torture a captive subject, and it’s arguably the most-played game on the planet. > > . If memory serves that particular quest you torture the person by continuing [combat](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyM76w17dnI) with them - with a specific weapon [the needler IIRC] you need to hit them 5 or 6 times or so. They have preprogrammed dialog that they use each time you strike them with the weapon and you hit them until they use the line you need. There are actually a lot of quests in a lot of games where you get information through combat with mobs. It isn’t like a computer game of operation where you cut off body parts graphically. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/52 "2011-06-29T15:25:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Why would this be a concern? What do you think is going to happen to her if she goes out on a date with that kid? Porn stuff. You know, the usual. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/53 "2011-06-29T16:54:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Why would this be a concern? What do you think is going to happen to her if she goes out on a date with that kid? He’ll last a lot longer when they have sex in the back of his car and won’t have her home in time for curfew, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/54 "2011-06-29T20:11:23Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Kids consume plenty of unrealistic fiction… Like [Disney movies](http://missdisgrace.tumblr.com/post/742530788/where-the-hell-is-my-insatiable-whore)? ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/55 "2011-06-29T21:09:54Z")
I want to make sure I understand the ruling, help would be appreciated. So the ruling establishes video games as a form of protected speech. That means the government cannot make laws that would ban video games (or any particular video game) for all of us, or a group of people, etc. Porn was ruled to NOT be protected speech. It was categorized as “obscene”. Is this just another version of “Ceremonial Deism”. In other words, an excuse to blatantly do the exact opposite of what the constitution says to do, by establishing a completely arbitraty new “category” which is exempt? Isn’t that a no true Scotsman fallacy? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/56 "2011-06-29T21:45:00Z")
I am so glad I don’t have daughters. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/57 "2011-06-29T21:50:32Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > It isn’t about men and breasts. It’s about about boys who are showed scenes of sex that rarely play out in real life. Do you want your son thinking that women are there for double penetration, girl on girl, blowjobs at work, and rape play? > > While children are entitled to constitutional rights, they don’t have _all_ of the same rights as adults. Wouldn’t it be the job of the parent to prevent them from seeing it if they think they should? Not that I think they could, mind you, as I already stated, given how easy access to porn is these days. Franckly, the only way to prevent porn from being watched by kids would require steps such as I, an adult, would have a hard time watching it too. I don’t belong to the internet generation by far and I saw porn (drawings and books) by the age of maybe 8-9. I’m amongst people who doubt that porn could really be harmful to kids. Also, I think that if they draw false conclusions from the content of porn they watch, the parents are probably at fault for not explaining the difference between porn and reality (if any). Also, still talking about me, as a young teenager, I was already seeking for porn (or erotica) that suited my tastes and mostly ignored the rest. I wasn’t as “passive” a consumer as some people seem to think teens are, and I suspect most teens nowadays aren’t any different, especially since they have more choice than I did. IOW, if your teen child happens to be watching a lot of “rape porn”, girl on girl, and so on, maybe it isn’t the fault of the porn but just that it suits the tastes of the “kid”. I guess you have to deal with that. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/58 "2011-06-29T22:17:58Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > World of Warcraft has for more than 2.5 years included at least one quest ([The Art Of Persuasion](http://www.wowhead.com/quest=11648)) that requires you to torture a captive subject, and it’s arguably the most-played game on the planet. I never really understood why that caused a problem, when 99% of quests out there are “Hey, guy, I need five orc spleens and the heads of 6 humans, go ahead and kill some for me will ya ? I’ll give you a bit of coin for your trouble”. I know that’s how fantasy goes, and murder for lewt is at the same time the job description and the ethical quandary of the D&D adventurer, but still. When you sit back and think about what your character is doing, you can’t help but notice it’s seven shades of fucked up. That’s why I play Neutral Evil guys these days. All in-character baby, all in-character 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/59 "2011-06-29T22:19:33Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Wouldn’t it be the job of the parent to prevent them from seeing it if they think they should? Not that I think they could, mind you, as I already stated, given how easy access to porn is these days. Franckly, the only way to prevent porn from being watched by kids would require steps such as I, an adult, would have a hard time watching it too. > > I don’t belong to the internet generation by far and I saw porn (drawings and books) by the age of maybe 8-9. > > I’m amongst people who doubt that porn could really be harmful to kids. Also, I think that if they draw false conclusions from the content of porn they watch, the parents are probably at fault for not explaining the difference between porn and reality (if any). > > Also, still talking about me, as a young teenager, I was already seeking for porn (or erotica) that suited my tastes and mostly ignored the rest. I wasn’t as “passive” a consumer as some people seem to think teens are, and I suspect most teens nowadays aren’t any different, especially since they have more choice than I did. IOW, if your teen child happens to be watching a lot of “rape porn”, girl on girl, and so on, maybe it isn’t the fault of the porn but just that it suits the tastes of the “kid”. I guess you have to deal with that. I think that I’d have something to say if a smut shop sold my kid some porn. Bit different re: internet: but you do what you can. I personally don’t want my naive son thinking that porn is how sex is usually done. Besides, the porn we saw as kids isn’t what the trend is now. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083/60 "2011-06-29T22:19:35Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Why would this be a concern? What do you think is going to happen to her if she goes out on a date with that kid? Hopefully he’ll go for a money shot. Teen pregnancy ? Solved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-ban-on-sales-of-pornography-to-minors-be-lifted/587083.md?page=4)