# Should the citizenry have the right to forcibly resist an illegal arrest? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 9, 2002, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-citizenry-have-the-right-to-forcibly-resist-an-illegal-arrest/141594 "2002-12-09T20:15:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-citizenry-have-the-right-to-forcibly-resist-an-illegal-arrest/141594/21 "2002-12-10T07:38:06Z")
Long long ago in a land far far away I was taught that using the word “Sir.” now, did not make a person bullet proof later. With that being understood. The bad arrests by the police that are not of a direct and personal nature, IE, the Capt. says, " Go get this guy, here is the warrant." are not their fault, the number of illegal or bad arrests are in direct proportion to the number of bad cops, due to either bad training or a bad apple with a gun. Not so many in reality. Very few cops will approach and just commence to beating on a person without some kind of provocation, yes, just a bit to much “MOUTH” can be the trigger. Rather pointless to resist. Your wife down with a uniformed cop on her yanking her dress up and his fly is open, that is another kettle of fish. Remember that movie with Ton Seleck being an aircraft mech. and gets framed by some drug cops trying to cover a bad address on a bust in? That seems to have happened in a few cases over the years in real life, the getting a wrong address. Unfortunately, the great ending of the movie was pretty far from reality. My point being, the judges, prosecutors, the juries, the system is much more at fault usually than any one or two cops. Usually the cops are just as frustrated by the system as we are. They are wondering why you are resisting. You will be out before they get the paper work done and then you will roll over on someone a bit higher up and you will skate and they will have you back selling dope to school kids the next day. Heck, just thinking about it makes me mad all over again. _::::::::::::::: “To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it.” :::::_ ---
**Author:** ![Badge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Badge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badge)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-citizenry-have-the-right-to-forcibly-resist-an-illegal-arrest/141594/22 "2002-12-10T17:18:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuaSponte \* > \*\*First of all, you are legally incorrect. A police officer only has the authority to independently make arrests for crimes he witnesses, and even there, in some jurisdictions arrest warrants issued by a judge are still necessary for felonies. In all (IIRC) jurisdictions, arrest warrants are needed for other crimes. The judge decides whether an arrest is proper, not the cop. > \*\* Obviously, this varies by jurisdiction. In Washington State, an Officer can make an arrest without a warrant for any felony or any other crime committed in his or her presence. If not committed in his or her presence, then with probable cause they can arrest for a long list of misdemeanors and gross misdemeanors. In fact, I can think of very few crimes that don’t somehow fit on this list: [http://www.leg.wa.gov/RCW/index.cfm?fuseaction=section§ion=10.31.100](http://www.leg.wa.gov/RCW/index.cfm?fuseaction=section§ion=10.31.100) \*\* > [@](#): > > As for factual knowledge whether an arrest is improper, there are many instances where the arrestee knows more than the cop. Heck, I’m a lawyer; if a cop arrested me, I’d probably know better than him/her whether the arrest was illegal. \*\* I wouldn’t count on that. I work with lots of lawyers, and most (even prosecutors) see things from the perspective of the courtroom and “beyond a reasonable doubt”. The rules for arrests are based on the much lower standard of “probable cause”, and a cop who deals with that every day will know them better than pretty much any lawyer. The fact that you believed all jurisdictions need warrants for most arrests shows that you don’t know better than a cop when an arrest is lawful. More importantly, you don’t know what facts the officer possesses to justify the arrest. Even if you know that you did not commit the crime, there still may be probable cause to arrest you with the facts in hand. While you should (and I know this doesn’t always happen, since our system is far from perfect) never be convicted of the crime, that still doesn’t make the _ **arrest** _ improper or illegal. I think that this is a perfect example of why the legislatures and courts have established that citizens cannot resist even an unlawful arrest _so long as the only thing threatened is a loss of freedom_. Everyone would be able to resist arrest and use the excuse that they _believed_ the arrest was unlawful. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-citizenry-have-the-right-to-forcibly-resist-an-illegal-arrest/141594/23 "2002-12-10T18:56:37Z")
With all due respect, I’m willing to bet I know at least as well as any police officer if an arrest is legal in Virginia, given a particular set of facts. I can’t speak for other jurisdictions, of course, but in Virginia, a person person may be lawfully arrested by any peace officer or private person without a warrant, on reasonable information that the arrestee stands charged in the courts of any state with a crime punishable by death or imprisonment for a term exceeding one year and is a fugitive from that state. With regard to arrests for crimes, an officer may arrest without a warrant any person who commits any crime in the presence of the officer and any person whom he has probable cause to suspect of having committed a felony not in his presence. In addition, a warrantless arrest is authorized for an alleged misdemeanor not committed in the presence of the arresting officer when the officer receives a radio message from his department or other law-enforcement agency within the Commonwealth that a warrant for such offense is on file. A warrantless arrest in Virginia is also permitted for the misdemeanor offenses of shoplifting, carrying a weapon on school property, assault and battery, brandishing a firearm, and destruction of property on premises used for business or commercial purposes, or a similar local ordinance, when any such arrest is based on probable cause upon reasonable complaint of the person who observed the alleged offense. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Azael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-citizenry-have-the-right-to-forcibly-resist-an-illegal-arrest/141594/24 "2002-12-10T19:07:20Z")
I believe the U.S. already has a way for us to resist illegal arrests… It’s called “the courts.” The police are just doing their job, if you interfere then you **are** commiting a crime. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-citizenry-have-the-right-to-forcibly-resist-an-illegal-arrest/141594.md?page=1)