# Should the credit card duopoly be broken? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 17, 2022, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851 "2022-08-17T21:28:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/61 "2022-08-19T03:49:11Z")
> [@phs3](#): > > Target Red Card is closer to debit (well, ACH) than a true credit card, to the best of my knowledge. As far as I know they offer both, unless they’ve changed it. When I signed up for mine I was offered two options, one where you get a bill at the end of the month (probably more of a charge card than a true credit card), and the ACH debit option. > [@phs3](#): > > And since it’s single-merchant, kind of a non-player. Well, yeah, I mentioned the Red Card in response to another poster asking if single-merchant cards still exist. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/62 "2022-08-19T05:36:44Z")
Ah, interesting. When did you sign up? ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/63 "2022-08-19T21:26:19Z")
So long ago I can’t remember exactly when, but my card says “member since 2012” on it, so 2012. But I just went to their web site, and they still offer both credit and debit options. And they actually call it “credit” so maybe it is a true credit card where you can carry a balance. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/64 "2022-08-19T21:34:32Z")
I just got a message from Target saying that my Balance is $43 and the minimum payment is $30 so I assumed this is a credit card ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/65 "2022-08-19T21:52:23Z")
Googling, there are both credit and debit versions of the Target RedCard. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/66 "2022-08-19T21:57:55Z")
OK, some Googling reveals that all four options exist for Target: 1. Debit 2. Store-specific card 3. Mastercard 4. Gift card all but #3 appear to be Target-specific. That just means there are restrictions on the BIN as applied by the issuer at authorization time (or earlier: at the processor, gateway, or conceivably even in the PED). They appear to be issued by TD Bank, so they’re just branded (and restricted) cards running on the same rails. Back at the time of the big Target breach, I had seem some reporting that said the Red Cards were just debit and thus weren’t at the same level of risk, since the PIN would be encrypted by the PED and thus wasn’t subject to leakage in the store systems, where the breach happened. Now I’m wondering if that was typical semi-correct reporting, applied to DEBIT Red Cards only. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/67 "2022-08-19T23:25:54Z")
I know I had a Target store-only _credit_ card at the time the breach happened. I also know that the fact the current cards are really TD Bank is something fairly new. Like probably post-breach when some government agency leaned on them to quit home-brewing a whole credit eco-system and told them to set up something done by industry pros on the common rails instead. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/68 "2022-08-20T00:07:24Z")
In line at Tim’s this morning, I noticed a Discover card logo on their lineup of payment options! I had no idea Discover had any presence in Canada. Probably wouldn’t have noticed, but for this thread. (The other options were Visa, MC, AmEx and Interac.) ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/69 "2022-08-20T00:17:17Z")
No, some places in Canada will accept Discover cards. Locally, in my city, anyway. Why? Because my city is on the Canamex Corridor, and if an American trucker (or his fleet) has only Discover and wants something, it’s more profitable to say, “Sure, we can take that,” rather than, “Sorry, we don’t take that.” So the local merchants do whatever it takes to accept Discover. Still, I would advise Americans not to expect that Discover is accepted across Canada. You’re better off with Visa or Mastercard. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/70 "2022-08-20T00:37:19Z")
That makes sense, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/71 "2022-08-20T01:59:38Z")
A lot of store brand credit cards are provided either by [Synchrony Bank](https://www.synchrony.com/for-consumers.html#credit-cards) or [Bread Financial](https://www.breadfinancial.com/en/card-search.html?q=*) (formerly known as Comenity Bank). Synchrony provides Lowe’s, Maaco, T.J. Maxx, and Walgreens store cards, among many others. Bread does cards for stores like Ann Taylor, Bed Bath & Beyond, and Kay Jewelers. Note that many of these stores also have a store branded Visa or Mastercard, that can be used anywhere. But they also offer a card without the Visa or MC logo, which can be used only in their store. In that case, the store card is likely provided through one of these two companies. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/72 "2022-08-20T02:16:55Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > Synchrony provides Lowe’s, Maaco, T.J. Maxx, and Walgreens store cards, among many others. As well as the Amazon Prime store card, which is a rather big deal ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/73 "2022-08-20T03:43:17Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > As well as the Amazon Prime store card ? Our Amazon Prime card is from Chase. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/74 "2022-08-20T05:23:19Z")
Chase offers one (just like they offer a United Airlines card, a Southwest Airlines card, a Marriott card, a Disney card, etc that are mostly Visa but a few Mastercard as well), but just like with a lot of the store cards mentioned above, there’s an Amazon card that is not branded with the Visa or MC logo and can only be used on Amazon itself just as store cards can generally only be used at those stores. And that one is offered through Synchrony. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/75 "2022-08-20T13:44:49Z")
Ah thanks. Had missed that. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/76 "2022-08-20T22:01:47Z")
It should be emphasized customers love credit cards and businesses dislike the fees. But here is a more nuanced discussion. > **[Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?](https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2022/08/17/can-the-visa-mastercard-duopoly-be-broken)** > > It is bad for American consumers and retailers—and it is under threat ---
**Author:** ![Bonum\_Legatum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bonum_legatum/32/6183_2.png) [@Bonum\_Legatum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonum_Legatum)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/77 "2022-08-21T16:11:54Z")
Thank you for posting the link. Quote from it: “America is home to the heftiest interchange fees of any major economy—costs are an order of magnitude greater than in Europe and China. That largely benefits two firms: Visa and Mastercard, which facilitate more than three-quarters of the country’s credit-card transactions. Doing so has made them two of the most profitable companies in the world, with net margins last year of 51% and 46% respectively.” Wow. I’m surprised that this hasn’t received more attention in the media. It seems that economists should be lining up (like they do whenever tariffs are mentioned) to talk about “transaction efficiency.” ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/78 "2022-08-21T17:55:24Z")
It says > The EU has capped such fees for credit cards at 0.3% of the transaction value; intense competition in China means that WeChat and Alipay collect charges of just 0.1%. So we are to conclude that a “fair” price is 0.3% and that the actual price is 0.1% in a “free” market. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851/79 "2022-08-21T18:15:26Z")
Lower than the US for certain. But using China as an example of a truly ‘free’ market raises eyebrows. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-credit-card-duopoly-be-broken/969851.md?page=3)