# Should the Democrats really be trying to bring down Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 23, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302 "2017-05-23T20:55:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/61 "2017-05-24T20:58:50Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > As Little Nemo said, if you’re trying to go cold-turkey on defending Trump, you’re not doing great :). But I laud the intention and hope you can get it to stick next time. My advice, take or leave it, is that you not start threads arguing why Democrats ought to try to keep Trump in power, if you’re trying not to defend the man. To be fair to him, I saw this thread as more an attempt to insult democrats than an attempt to bolster Trump. (The insult being that we’re assumed to be so blindly partisan that we’d put party over country.) ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/62 "2017-05-24T21:32:22Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > To be fair to him, I saw this thread as more an attempt to insult democrats than an attempt to bolster Trump. (The insult being that we’re assumed to be so blindly partisan that we’d put party over country.) That’s my impression, too. (And it appears to have backfired.) ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/63 "2017-05-24T21:59:11Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > It seems to me that any prudent Democrat should be doing his or her best to prop the President up. I think that the term “prudent Democrat” is an oxymoron. They’re too busy whining, lying and throwing temper tantrums in their safe spaces to even let the thought of propping up the President cross their minds. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/64 "2017-05-24T21:59:20Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Sometimes I wonder just how much these people would have to suffer at the hands of the republican congress to change their outlook. Then I want to give them exactly that much suffering. I suspect some true believers won’t see the light about how incompetent Trump is until the nukes start flying. And that’s more tough love than I’m willing to inflict. And this point, I’d be happy to see Trump out of power and replaced by a run-of-the-mill right winger like Pence even if it comes at the cost of letting the dittoheads keep their illusions intact. We need to be the grown-ups that pull the toddler away from the cliff. We have to save them from themselves even if they’re screaming that they hate us as we’re doing it. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/65 "2017-05-24T22:20:13Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I think that the term “prudent Democrat” is an oxymoron. They’re too busy whining, lying and throwing temper tantrums in their safe spaces to even let the thought of propping up the President cross their minds. It’s so nice that intelligent conservatives remain polite and civil in the discussion of their political opposites. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/66 "2017-05-24T22:56:50Z")
I’d like to preemptively apologize for my prior post. Regardless of Clothahump, I was wrong in joining him in personal insults. Both our shots had a pretty wide spread, but honestly I think both of them were targeted enough to break forum rules. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/67 "2017-05-24T23:06:46Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I think that the term “prudent Democrat” is an oxymoron. They’re too busy whining, lying and throwing temper tantrums in their safe spaces to even let the thought of propping up the President cross their minds. Just don’t call us “deplorable.” ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/68 "2017-05-24T23:24:01Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I think that the term “prudent Democrat” is an oxymoron. They’re too busy whining, lying and throwing temper tantrums in their safe spaces to even let the thought of propping up the President cross their minds. Spare us. Trump and his far right enablers have molded whining into an (attempted) art form. “The media is so unfair! It’s so biased! They’re being so mean! All the different corporate-owned media stations are somehow not only communist at heart despite their obvious love for money, but are also secretly conspiring to tell the same communist lies. We better set up our own right wing safe space where we can tell ourselves the reality we want to live in and call anyone who won’t blankly accept our fairy tales the lamestream!” ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/69 "2017-05-25T00:13:22Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Sometimes I wonder just how much these people would have to suffer at the hands of the republican congress to change their outlook. Then I want to give them exactly that much suffering. I don’t think there _is_ a ceiling for such suffering. Whatever bad things happen to them, they will be spun to lay blame at the feet of D’s. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/70 "2017-05-25T03:42:07Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Sometimes I wonder just how much these people would have to suffer at the hands of the republican congress to change their outlook. Then I want to give them exactly that much suffering. What \*\*Ambivalid \*\*said - It’s well possible that there \*isn’t \*a ceiling on such suffering, or, if there is a lot of suffering, that it will be attributed to the Democrats instead, in a “It’s bad under the GOP but it could only be worse under the Dems” way. A third possibility is that social issues such as abortion, LGBT, trump economic issues and would still sway their vote rightwards. A reverse analogy might be inner-city African-Americans in places such as Detroit, Chicago, etc. They have had Democratic governance for a long time but their plight has not improved, yet they still vote 90% Democratic. All those decades of suffering have not induced them to vote GOP. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/71 "2017-05-25T10:47:10Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > A reverse analogy might be inner-city African-Americans in places such as Detroit, Chicago, etc. They have had Democratic governance for a long time but their plight has not improved, yet they still vote 90% Democratic. All those decades of suffering have not induced them to vote GOP. Totally. I knew a guy who got beat to within an inch of his life by some Mafia thugs. He went to the doctor, but they weren’t able to remove all the scar tissue or restore full use of his limbs. The mafia kept offering to take the guy back into their custody, but for some reason he refused. When would he realize that the doctors weren’t doing him right? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/72 "2017-05-25T12:27:57Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Shouldn’t they always keep a’hold of nurse for fear of finding something worse? No. Part of being an opposition is keeping those in power honest and holding them to account. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/73 "2017-05-25T13:15:33Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > What \*\*Ambivalid \*\*said - It’s well possible that there \*isn’t \*a ceiling on such suffering, or, if there is a lot of suffering, that it will be attributed to the Democrats instead, in a “It’s bad under the GOP but it could only be worse under the Dems” way. > > A third possibility is that social issues such as abortion, LGBT, trump economic issues and would still sway their vote rightwards. People care about social issues when they are not concerned about personal survival issues. I am sure that there are people as you describe, who would rather see the economy crash and their children starve than to see a man marry another man, but I hold out the hope that those self destructive impulses are in the minority. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/74 "2017-05-25T14:32:10Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I’d like to preemptively apologize for my prior post. Regardless of Clothahump, I was wrong in joining him in personal insults. Both our shots had a pretty wide spread, but honestly I think both of them were targeted enough to break forum rules. This is a general note to all, however I am quoting this post as a reference. The nature of this thread requires sweeping generalizations it seems. Everyone please keep in mind that insults directed at larger groups can easily be interpreted to be insults towards other posters. It’s better not to try and see how close to the line one can get. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/75 "2017-05-25T17:03:58Z")
With all due respect the Dems are reaching too far and at risk of the crying wolf syndrome here. I understand this is red meat for the rabid dogs on the far left but what signal does this send to the 15-20 % the middle who decide elections ? This just may have the opposite effect than you think. Remember the surprise at his win in November. That tells you there is a significant % of the population Dems and progressives do not know, understand and, to be frank, don’t respect. Now you want to tell me you speak for them with this ? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/76 "2017-05-25T17:32:31Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > With all due respect the Dems are reaching too far and at risk of the crying wolf syndrome here. Benghazi. > [@](#): > > I understand this is red meat for the rabid dogs on the far left but what signal does this send to the 15-20 % the middle who decide elections ? This just may have the opposite effect than you think. > > Remember the surprise at his win in November. That tells you there is a significant % of the population Dems and progressives do not know, understand and, to be frank, don’t respect. Now you want to tell me you speak for them with this ? Trumps win surprised everyone, Republicans and Democrats alike. If the Republican party had any particular insight into or support from this demographic, they’d have been able to use it to get one of their competent candidates into the race. Instead, Trump embarrassed the Republican establishment nearly as badly as he embarrassed the Democratic. If Trump’s presidency has completely imploded by the next election - as is looking increasingly likely - then it looks to me like that demographic is up for grabs again. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/77 "2017-05-25T17:35:00Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > With all due respect the Dems are reaching too far and at risk of the crying wolf syndrome here. > > I understand this is red meat for the rabid dogs on the far left but what signal does this send to the 15-20 % the middle who decide elections ? This just may have the opposite effect than you think. > > Remember the surprise at his win in November. That tells you there is a significant % of the population Dems and progressives do not know, understand and, to be frank, don’t respect. Now you want to tell me you speak for them with this ? Are you saying there are people who _don’t_ think Trump is an ignorant buffoon? I suppose that’s possible, but they can hardly be surprised that the rest of us do. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/78 "2017-05-25T17:38:57Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > With all due respect the Dems are reaching too far and at risk of the crying wolf syndrome here. > > I understand this is red meat for the rabid dogs on the far left but what signal does this send to the 15-20 % the middle who decide elections ? This just may have the opposite effect than you think. > > Remember the surprise at his win in November. That tells you there is a significant % of the population Dems and progressives do not know, understand and, to be frank, don’t respect. Now you want to tell me you speak for them with this ? The “rabid dogs of the far right” spent the last eight years with their wolf alarms going off 24/7 and that worked out all right for them. Eight Benghazi investigations found nothing and still a large percentage of the voting populace believe Clinton and Obama were guilty of something. Compared to the scant evidence used to justify those investigations, the connections between the Trump administration and Russia are like finding wolf tracks, wolf poop, and a big flashing neon sign saying “THIS WAY TO THE WOLVES”. Sometimes when you cry wolf, there be wolves. But I guess we should ignore evidence of malfeasance if it might put off the Mysterious Middle. Party before country! ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/79 "2017-05-25T17:42:31Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > With all due respect the Dems are reaching too far and at risk of the crying wolf syndrome here. > > I understand this is red meat for the rabid dogs on the far left but what signal does this send to the 15-20 % the middle who decide elections ? This just may have the opposite effect than you think. > > Remember the surprise at his win in November. That tells you there is a significant % of the population Dems and progressives do not know, understand and, to be frank, don’t respect. Now you want to tell me you speak for them with this ? I would say that the democrats try to know and understand, and certainly do respect that demographic of people who are worried about their wallets and health. Based on Trump’s lies, these people felt it was in their best interest to vote for him and republicans, because they believed him when he said that they would get better healthcare and and improved economy. The republicans had no intention on delivering on these promises, so I don’t know how you can possibly think that they had more respect to the people that they lied to for personal gain. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302/80 "2017-05-25T18:20:20Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > what signal does this send to the 15-20 % the middle who decide elections ? The polls already show them having pretty much the same A/DA numbers for Trump and the GOP as declared Democrats do. > [@](#): > > there is a significant % of the population Dems and progressives do not know, understand and, to be frank, don’t respect. Is \*that \*why the Dems used so much capital in getting them health care and preserving Social Security and Medicare? Whose fault is it that they got lied to and chose to believe those lies? Who benefits from their realizations, belated as they come? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-democrats-really-be-trying-to-bring-down-trump/787302.md?page=3)