# Should the Dems boot Lieberman? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 6, 2008, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433 "2008-11-06T11:27:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/41 "2008-11-06T22:50:20Z")
Lierbman generally votes along with the dems. But, he actively campaigned for McCain and spoke at their convention.He traveled with him and helped him. That can not be ignored. He must be corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/42 "2008-11-06T23:00:23Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > In or out he’ll vote against Obama and party when he thinks he should and with them when he thinks he should. I’m not so sure. If the Democratic Party deliberately alienates him, maybe he’ll start nursing a grudge. We can’t take that chance, IMO, even with a decisive lead; the current Republican caucus has shown a willingness to filibuster anything and everything that could provide real change in this country, and we don’t have the 60 votes necessary to overcome that easily. OTOH, I’m starting to see a pretty good argument for kicking him out. I could go either way, personally, but I see his place in the Party as the status quo and that there needs to be an extraordinary case to upset it. > [@Syntropy](#): > > He even identified himself as a Dem at the GOP convention, something that was seen by a lot of Dems as the last straw. His repeatedly showing up at McPalin rallies as a “Democrat for McCain” really did piss me off. Whenever he was introduced as a Democrat, I thought, “That word does not mean what they think it means.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/43 "2008-11-06T23:27:40Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Presumably the Dems don’t want their members supporting opposition candidates, so stripping him of his commitee chair or tossing him out of the caucus will discourage other members of the caucus from doing similar things. I agree that putting the ranking Democrat in the Chairman’s position is the right way to go, but booting him out of the caucus seems pointless. Unless they think he’s spying for the Republicans… ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/44 "2008-11-06T23:32:43Z")
As much as Lieberman pisses me off, I don’t blame him. The democratic caucus is led by that milquetoast pussy Harry Reid. I’m more mad at Reid than I am at Lieberman. It’s one thing to turn on your party, it’s another to let someone walk all over you. Apparetnly he and Reid had some kind of “talk” earlier. This is bullshit. Kick his ass to the curb. If he wants to vote against Democratic policies, that’ll have to be between him and his constituents in Connecticut. His having used his position given to him by our party, to further his political career to our detriment really makes the situation quite clear. We don’t need him to organize the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/45 "2008-11-06T23:33:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I agree that putting the ranking Democrat in the Chairman’s position is the right way to go, but booting him out of the caucus seems pointless. Unless they think he’s spying for the Republicans… I agree. I think stripping him of his gavel is adequate enough punishment, and that kicking him out of the caucus is just vindictive and will hurt the cause. From what I’ve seen of reporting on Reid’s meeting with Lieberman this morning, that’s basically how the Senate leadership feels as well. Of course it remains to be seen if Lieberman won’t leave of his own accord if he’s not allowed to keep his chairmanship. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/46 "2008-11-06T23:33:26Z")
Who does Sanders caucus with? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/47 "2008-11-06T23:34:42Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Who does Sanders caucus with? The Dems ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/48 "2008-11-06T23:38:21Z")
Membership in a political party has both advantages and responsibilities. When Lieberman decided to sidestep the primary in Connecticut by running as an independant, he voluntarily withdrew from the party, and stopped owing party responsibilities. So, based on his decision, he ought to also turn down the advantages of party membership. The Democrats _should_ have booted Lieberman when he officially decided to leave the party, but they couldn’t afford to do it then. Now, they can afford to do it. Yes, this will make Lieberman unhappy, but there’s no law that says he has to be happy. And I doubt that he’ll be re-elected, since I suspect that his recent behaviour is very different from what the voters of Connecticut want from a senator, so there’s not much reason to worry about revenge. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/49 "2008-11-06T23:41:22Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I agree. I think stripping him of his gavel is adequate enough punishment, and that kicking him out of the caucus is just vindictive and will hurt the cause. From what I’ve seen of reporting on Reid’s meeting with Lieberman this morning, that’s basically how the Senate leadership feels as well. Of course it remains to be seen if Lieberman won’t leave of his own accord if he’s not allowed to keep his chairmanship. Well, I was so much thinking of punishing Lieberman as I was thinking of rewarding the ranking Democrat. But I guess that’s sort of the same thing-- just coming at it from a different angle. ---
**Author:** ![Kyrie\_Eleison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kyrie_eleison/32/7682_2.png) [@Kyrie\_Eleison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyrie_Eleison)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/50 "2008-11-06T23:44:43Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > I’m not so sure. If the Democratic Party deliberately alienates him, maybe he’ll start nursing a grudge. We can’t take that chance, IMO, even with a decisive lead; the current Republican caucus has shown a willingness to filibuster anything and everything that could provide real change in this country, and we don’t have the 60 votes necessary to overcome that easily. Yet, the Dems have to start thinking about what happens to his seat in 2012. Grudge or no grudge, unless he can find his way back into the good graces of Connecticut Democrats, his best bet will be to seek the Republican nomination if he wants to continue in the Senate. If he seeks the Democratic nomination, he’s likely to face a challenger, and he’s lost that bet once already. He squeaked by in the 2006 general election as an independent only because the Republican candidate had become so mired in scandal that the state Republican leadership threw their support to Lieberman. That’s not likely to happen again; if the GOP can find a decent candidate, he’s got a good shot at winning a race against an independent Lieberman and the Dem candidate. On the other hand, if Lieberman runs on the GOP ticket, he’s got a very good chance of winning. Long story short, anything the Dems give him or allow him to keep now is one more thing on the resume of their opponent in 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/51 "2008-11-06T23:44:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Democrats _should_ have booted Lieberman when he officially decided to leave the party, but they couldn’t afford to do it then. Now, they can afford to do it. Lieberman will remain in the senate for another four years, at least. The dems will still need to win over moderate Republicans to break filibusters during that period, and most of those moderates are friends with Lieberman. I’d say it’s worth forgoing kicking him out to try and bring him back in the fold in return for his support for Dem legislation and Obama’s appointments. > [@Kyrie](#): > > If he seeks the Democratic nomination, he’s likely to face a challenger, and he’s lost that bet once already. He lost that bet due to his support for the Iraq War, something that (God willing) won’t be anywhere as important in four years. I think if he manages to worm his way back into the Dems good graces and plays nice for four years, he ought to be able to put the past in the past and win his primary. ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/52 "2008-11-07T02:00:40Z")
At the very least President Obama ought to return the favor of campaigning for Lieberman’s Democratic opponent in the Senate in 2012. I wonder how much he’ll like that shit. ---
**Author:** ![IClaudius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c37758/32.png) [@IClaudius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IClaudius)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/53 "2008-11-07T02:49:30Z")
> [@Merkwurdigliebe](#): > > At the very least President Obama ought to return the favor of campaigning for Lieberman’s Democratic opponent in the Senate in 2012. I wonder how much he’ll like that shit. Nah, direct campaigning could potentially backfire. Better to simply send one email and bring in millions for the candidate from Plouffe’s database. ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/54 "2008-11-07T18:50:06Z")
Just saw this on MSNBC. Apparently Joementum is weighing a move to the Republican party. Harry Reid apparently told him that he will be relieved of his chairmanship. I’m sorry folks but this is only fair. You don’t have an Independent who campaigned against the head of your party chairing an important committee over loyal democrats. It’s nonsensical and unfair. But honestly, Joementum has an uncanny ability to pick the losing position and hold steadfast on many many topics now, so I’m sure he’ll do the stupid thing and go Republican. I hope he has fun in the Minority for the next four years before he’s booted out. Joining the Republican party would actually hurt his re-election chances I think. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/55 "2008-11-07T19:10:09Z")
> [@Merkwurdigliebe](#): > > But honestly, Joementum has an uncanny ability to pick the losing position and hold steadfast on many many topics now, so I’m sure he’ll do the stupid thing and go Republican. I hope he has fun in the Minority for the next four years before he’s booted out. Joining the Republican party would actually hurt his re-election chances I think. I think he’s just playing hard to get. The GOP doesn’t really have much to offer him, he disagrees with them on many issues and it’ll be hard for him to win another term with an R next to his name in four years. I suspect he’ll end up staying and agreeing on Reid’s terms ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/56 "2008-11-07T19:25:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What is to be gained, practically and operationally, by booting him? I know it would make a lot of people feel better, but does it actually do any good? I ask that as an honest question, as I sincerely don’t know. Discipline, which the Democrats sorely lack would be gained. Each party gets seats on the various committees based on the size of the majority. Committee Chairs are very powerful and can kill legislation in their committees and hold hearings. Lieberman should not be allowed to Chair any full committee IMHO. Sub-committees would be okay, and membership on the full committees is okay with seniority for matters other than Chair intact. He should also be excluded from the caucus meetings as he is worse than a spy, he is a loose cannon. This is a lot better than the Republicans can offer him. If it is unacceptable, then let him go over to the Reps. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/57 "2008-11-07T19:41:14Z")
I would like to hear Obama, excuse me, President Elect Obama! speak to this issue, it would be the first test. If he leans towards magnanimity and forgiveness, I could be convinced, even though I am really, _really_ pissed at Joe Lieberman, and am currently aligned with the “Fuck You, Joe!” camp. I suspect, but do not know, that Obama likely leans in that conciliatory direction, it would be a good gesture and a good note to start on. A purge of our own might distract our gleeful attention from the bloodbath on the right. We elected a leader. So, OK…lead. Whaddaya got, Barry? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/58 "2008-11-07T19:55:56Z")
**’luci** - if he leads the way I expect he will, you won’t even know that he is leading on the issue. It just happens. Odds are that what will or is occurring is that Lieberman will be given a choice: voluntarily drop his chair position and stay on the committees with a promise to vote against filibusters; or get kicked off not only the chair position but stripped of all committees and being forced to go hat in hand to the GOP. He’ll be given a bit of time to decide and given some modest face-saving manner to do it if he so wishes. Obama will - _quietly_ - make it known that this will be so - and so it will be. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/59 "2008-11-07T19:58:34Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I think he’s just playing hard to get. The GOP doesn’t really have much to offer him, he disagrees with them on many issues and it’ll be hard for him to win another term with an R next to his name in four years. I suspect he’ll end up staying and agreeing on Reid’s terms He seemed to do quite well with Republicans in his last bid. They may find him more electable than a new candidate, especially with the current Senat majority. ---
**Author:** ![Kyrie\_Eleison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kyrie_eleison/32/7682_2.png) [@Kyrie\_Eleison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyrie_Eleison)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/60 "2008-11-07T20:12:51Z")
> [@Syntropy](#): > > He seemed to do quite well with Republicans in his last bid. They may find him more electable than a new candidate, especially with the current Senat majority. I agree. I’m don’t understand those who are claiming that he would have trouble winning as a Republican. He won his last election with 70% of the GOP vote _with a Republican candidate in the race_, and only got 33% of the Dem vote. Assuming he can get the Republican primary nod (a pretty safe bet if he switches parties sometime soon) he can count on Republican voters, independent-minded Democratic voters, confused Democratic voters, and the independents he won over last time. I think he wins as a Republican candidate, and that it’s the only way he wins. Moreover, I think he knows it too, and that it’s the explanation for his behavior during the presidential election. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433.md?page=4)