# Should the Dems boot Lieberman? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 6, 2008, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433 "2008-11-06T11:27:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/81 "2008-11-10T21:49:44Z")
ISTR his loyalty and patriotism were questioned and he was vilified in the press and ostracized, to the point that he was kicked out of the Singing Senators barbershop group. Interestingly, the one Republican to publicly support Mr. Jeffords’ decision was John McCain. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/82 "2008-11-10T21:56:00Z")
> [@Syntropy](#): > > Because Jim Jeffords retired. Anyone remember what the Republicans did to him when he decided to run as an Independent? Just think what they would have done if he had gone out and stumped for Kerry in '04. He did not run as an independant. He ran as a pub, took pub money for his campaign, and then switched afterwards. And if you have any cite for his patriotism being questioned by any serious person, I’d like to see it. And no, him saying people did it doesn’t count. I’m getting really tired of people whining that their patriotism is questioned every time they’re attacked. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/83 "2008-11-11T00:29:45Z")
Didn’t he also run on a promise to use his Chairmanship to lead a strong investigation into the failures of the response and clean up of Hurricane Katrina, only to say ‘bugger all’ and do literally nothing about it after he got elected? He needs the boot faster than Homer’s car in NYC. Reid? What a mealy mouth waste of space. Forget the sign on his back **Steve MB** , he has that as a permanent tramp stamp tatoo, which the Republicans aim for every time. Bush/McCain= Zap Brannigan; Lieberman= Kif Kroker; Reid= Tinny Tim? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/84 "2008-11-11T03:02:05Z")
Does Lieberman have any actual convictions? He had to twist his “beliefs” into a pretzel to be Gore’s running mate. He supported McCain, but why? Just the war? That leaves a whole helluva lot in it’s wake, from economic issues to health care to education etc., etc. Fuck Joe. Cut him loose with no regrets. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/85 "2008-11-11T03:32:22Z")
[Obama want’s Lieberman to stay in the Democratic Caucus](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/10/obama-wants-lieberman-to_n_142731.html) Wow, just wow. Obama’s taking care of business. I’m not sure I agree, but theres no question this is his house. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/86 "2008-11-11T03:35:27Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > There are still several NE GOP senators. By several you mean 3? MA has Kennedy and Kerry, both Dems. CT has Dodd and Lieberman, one Dem. VT has Leahy and Sanders, one Dem and one Dem-leaning Indie. NH has Gregg and Shaheen replacing Sununu, one Dem and one Rep. ME has Snowe and Collins, both Reps. RI has Reed and Whitehouse, both Dems. That looks overwhelmingly Democratic to me. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/87 "2008-11-11T04:01:31Z")
As a political maneuver, it makes sense. The situation calls for a face-saving solution, so that all the monkeys stop beating their chests and hooting. Pressure from Obama may provide it. The Senate Dems get to say “Well, we were gonna, but Obama stopped us.” And if Figthin’ Joe misbehaves, Obama gets to say “I tried to help you, but you wouldn’t listen.” Either way, Obama and the Senate Dems both get a lien on Joe’s butt. Plus Obama racks up magnanimity points, healing gestures, all that good stuff. And, as well, its good to remember that Obama dislikes and will avoid confrontational drama. And I’m ready for a heaping helping of that, you’d best believe. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/88 "2008-11-11T04:17:08Z")
Quoth **Sitnam** : > [@](#): > > Obama want’s Lieberman to stay in the Democratic Caucus > > Wow, just wow. Obama’s taking care of business. I’m not sure I agree, but theres no question this is his house. I disagree with this move… But that doesn’t matter, because President-Elect Obama has rather conclusively proven that he’s a heck of a lot better at this politics thing than I am. If he thinks that playing nice to Lieberman is the right move, I’m willing to accept that he’s probably correct. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/89 "2008-11-11T04:19:40Z")
Nope. There’s no need to kick out Lieberman. Has he voted against the Dems sometimes? Yes. Did he openly campaign against the Democratic nominee? Yes. Fuck it. We’ve got other problems to fix. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/90 "2008-11-11T04:41:31Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > [Obama want’s Lieberman to stay in the Democratic Caucus](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/10/obama-wants-lieberman-to_n_142731.html) > > Wow, just wow. Obama’s taking care of business. I’m not sure I agree, but theres no question this is his house. Doesn’t really answer the question of whether he gets to keep his committee seat though, even if he claims he’ll bolt if he doesn’t get to. Given that Reid already said Lieberman could stay if he gave up the seat, I’m not sure Obama’s statement really adds anything. > [@Captain Carrot](#): > > By several you mean 3? > … > That looks overwhelmingly Democratic to me. I’m not sure what your point is. I was responding to **Syntropy’s** mistaken belief that Jeffords leaving the changing party’s was the reason there would be no remaining House GOP members from New England, which was incorrect since 1) Jeffords in the senate, 2) there are still GOP senators from New England. I never said anything about New England being overwelmingly Republican in its Senators. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/91 "2008-11-11T05:05:39Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I was responding to **Syntropy’s** mistaken belief that Jeffords leaving the changing party’s was the reason there would be no remaining House GOP members from New England, which was incorrect since 1) Jeffords in the senate, 2) there are still GOP senators from New England. I never said anything about New England being overwelmingly Republican in its Senators. 1. No quibble with that. 2. Whuh? The existence of New England GOP Senators has nothing to do with the existence of New England GOP Representatives. Case in point: NH and ME are at the moment entirely represented by Republicans in the Senate, but there’s only one Republican in the House from CT, NH, VT, ME, RI, and MA combined, and he was defeated last week. 3. My point was that there are not, in fact, ‘several’ Republican Senators from New England, there are three. (Or there will be three in January, and might be two if Collins weren’t so popular and Allen hadn’t run such a shitty campaign.) ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/92 "2008-11-11T05:33:06Z")
I think the Democratic Party should expel any member who doesn’t follow the party line in every detail. There is no place for independent thought in modern politics. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/93 "2008-11-11T05:42:25Z")
Getting out of Iraq is a _major_ goal for the Party, and the chair of the Homeland Defense Committee with a possible leadership in the Armed Forces Committee doesn’t want it to happen. How can you not see that as problematic from our perspective? He’s not even a member of the Democratic Party; the discussion is whether he should be kicked out of the Democratic caucus, not the Party… If he acts like an outsider, he can _be_ an outsider, as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/94 "2008-11-11T05:44:55Z")
Yes, the Democrats should boot him out, and maybe throw turnips at him as he leaves the caucus. Because when you get a majority, the first order of business is to settle scores and make sure you punish everyone who you think has not been ideologically pure over the years. Everyone knows that’s the best way to create a governing coalition and get the moderates and centrists on your side. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/95 "2008-11-11T06:06:31Z")
They are the centrists and the moderates, **Sam**. And they are on their side. Its the extremists who just had their asses handed to them. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/96 "2008-11-11T06:10:01Z")
He actively campaigned for McCain. He traveled with him and helped the old goat out as he fumbled in front of the press. He appeared and spoke at the repub convention. These are not things to be taken lightly. He stepped well over the line. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/97 "2008-11-11T06:29:30Z")
And he insulted Barack Obama at the RNC, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/98 "2008-11-11T11:31:07Z")
Honestly, not booting Lieberman is probably a good way to mend bridges with McCain. Which is probably an important thing for Obama to do. ---
**Author:** ![parthenokinesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/cc9497/32.png) [@parthenokinesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/parthenokinesis)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/99 "2008-11-11T12:09:47Z")
> [@IClaudius](#): > > Nah, direct campaigning could potentially backfire. Better to simply send one email and bring in millions for the candidate from Plouffe’s database. in 2012 Obama will be campaigning for his own re-election, and would be expected to help down ticket. The democratic nominee stands to get some decent coattail regardless, and Joe should be thinking of how much he’s already pissed of Obama, and how much he can mitigate that in the next four years. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433/100 "2008-11-11T13:27:14Z")
> [@furt](#): > > And if you have any cite for his patriotism being questioned by any serious person, I’d like to see it. And no, him saying people did it doesn’t count. I’m getting really tired of people whining that their patriotism is questioned every time they’re attacked. Well, I suppose it depends on who you consider “serious.” Does [Trent Lott](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/23/politics/main509957.shtml) count? I have a hard time taking someone like Lott seriously, but he was extremely influential at the time. > [@Trent Lott](#): > > Jeffords was vilified by his former Republican chums. Trent Lott – the former Senate majority leader, now minority leader – accused him of “trumping the will of the American people” and executing a “coup of one.” He was even kicked out of the “Singing Senators” – a GOP quartet with Lott, Larry Craig of Idaho and now-Attorney General John Ashcroft. And I didn’t say there were no House Republicans. Frostillicus said, and I quote: “There is not a single Republican congressman in New England.” It WAS my mistake for inferring Senate, and not including House, but please don’t accuse me of saying something I did not say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-dems-boot-lieberman/471433.md?page=6)