# Should the Drug War be ended? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2000, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012 "2000-05-19T23:39:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Argeable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5ac83/32.png) [@Argeable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argeable)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2000, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/41 "2000-05-21T21:45:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > I think its obvious to most people…that it has been a simple out-and-out failure > \*\* Alright, I can’t say that marijuana is a harmful drug. Crack, cocain, heroin, and acids, are another story. These things can and will kill (well, only unpure acids.) In all, though, I can’t say that this campagain against drugs is a bad idea at all. Yes, it costs the government money, but it does help. There are fewer drug addicts now than 10 years ago. And drug addiction is a serious problem- it can destroy your life. (and this is just a ruthless way of driving up my post count.) ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2000, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/42 "2000-05-21T21:50:37Z")
**Matt:** My compassion lies with the people as a whole, not those stupid enough to use illegal drugs. **Cliff:** > [@](#): > > Why do they need punishment any more than the person who smokes a cigar or drinks a beer? Because getting beer does not usually involve stealing something. > [@](#): > > So you have an extreme allergic reaction to something, the doctors aren’t sure what it is and think you may have taken an illegal drug and therefore, they let you die. They can easily do blood tests. > [@](#): > > Others have already commented on your lack of compassion. Another thing you apparently lack is a knowledge of medical ethics. Doctors wouldn’t do it. Yes, they would. After getting the same stupid SOB in for cocaine overdose twice in the same night, you would too. > [@](#): > > What if they don’t need rehab any more than a person who drinks a beer? If they’re using illegal drugs, with full knowledge of the risks involved, they obviously need rehab, because they’re addicted. Especially if the drug of choice is something like herion. > [@](#): > > How are they going to do that if they are in rehab? They still have bank accounts. > [@](#): > > In other words, an excuse to loot the public. A lot better than what the dealers do every day. > [@](#): > > So let’s say you took a computer programmer who was earning more than a hundred thousand a year, caught him with a joint, and now you want him to work minimum wage to pay it off. Doesn’t make a lot of sense, if you actually want to get reimbursed. No, we get what he owns, and his bank account. > [@](#): > > So how many millions of people do you suppose you would have to execute? Please compare that with the number of people killed by the drug problem itself. If you have your facts straight, this plan would kill fewer than the drugs would because more could be cured. > [@](#): > > The only drug with any real association with violence is alcohol. See "Psychoactive Substances and Violence"by the US Dept. of Justice, at [http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/govpub/psycviol.htm](http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/govpub/psycviol.htm) If you want to achieve that goal, then you would have to work your plan on all the alcohol drinkers. Have you forgotten about amphetamines? > [@](#): > > If you had done any reading on the subject, you would know that even the DEA admits that the vast majority of illegal drug users are productive citizens who have no apparent problems with their illegal drug use. We can cure those. > [@](#): > > I know lots of people who have been drinking beer, smoking cigarettes, and taking illegal drugs for decades now. They are quite aware of the harmfulness of what they do, and they accept the risks for whatever pleasure it brings them. They deserve what they get, the idiots. > [@](#): > > Even the DEA admits that the majority of illegal drug users right now are gainfully employed and beneficial to society as a whole. Good. We can help those. > [@](#): > > It isn’t that much of a drain, for the majority of them. The rehab, not the drugs. > [@](#): > > So how many millions do you propose to kill? Compare that with the number actually killed by illegal drugs, if you know such basic facts. I propose to kill those who are harmful. If your facts are true, and the hopeless cases are so few, my plan would kill far less than drugs would. > [@](#): > > Really? I think you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Let’s start with something simple. Can you answer some basic factual questions: > > 1. When and why were these drugs outlawed in the first place? > > 2. How many people use illegal drugs? > > 3. How many people are killed by drugs each year? Remember to include the totals for alcohol and tobacco. 1. They were outlawed when we saw how much they were hurting economic productivity. 2. Too many. 3. See 2). > [@](#): > > Communism fell for the same reason that the drug war will fall. Because both are based on ignorance and they require ignorance to survive. People who recommend them, as you do above, invariably know nothing at all about the subject and cannot answer basic factual questions. The war on dugs is based on protecting society. Communisim was based on faulty economic theory. ---
**Author:** ![Initial\_Entry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e9a140/32.png) [@Initial\_Entry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Initial_Entry)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2000, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/43 "2000-05-21T22:26:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Because getting beer does not usually involve stealing something. Lets try to keep as many quotes as possible within context, ok? He was referring to the morality involved in using the drug in question as I recall. > [@](#): > > They can easily do blood tests. While you’re lying on the table asphixiating? What the hell kind of blood test is that, looking at it? > [@](#): > > Yes, they would. After getting the same stupid SOB in for cocaine overdose twice in the same night, you would too. No, I seriously doubt that they would. Have you ever heard of the hypocratic oath? > [@](#): > > If they’re using illegal drugs, with full knowledge of the risks involved, they obviously need rehab, because they’re addicted. Especially if the drug of choice is something like herion. Gee, an awful lot of addicts out there aren’t there. Especially those casual addicts of mariajuana. Better get them in rehab right away. > [@](#): > > A lot better than what the dealers do every day. Um, last time I checked dealers just sell stuff. Sure it’s often at exorbitant prices, but thats because the stuff they’re selling is illegal. Make it legal and the prices would drop. > [@](#): > > No, we get what he owns, and his bank account. Can we bring back debtors prison as well? > [@](#): > > If you have your facts straight, this plan would kill fewer than the drugs would because more could be cured. Cured of **what**? Addiction to mariajuana? > [@](#): > > Have you forgotten about amphetamines? No, he hasn’t. > [@](#): > > We can cure those. Again, what are you going to cure them of? They’re not sick. > [@](#): > > They deserve what they get, the idiots. As far as health goes, perhaps. Of course, you understand that you are pretty much condemning almost every single person in existence as being an idiot, right? > [@](#): > > Good. We can help those. Who’s we? People like you who have no knowledge of what they’re talking about, yet are quite willing to make sweeping statements? > [@](#): > > Really? I think you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Let’s start with something simple. Can you answer some basic factual questions: > > 1. When and why were these drugs outlawed in the first place? > > 2. How many people use illegal drugs? > > 3. How many people are killed by drugs each year? Remember to include the totals for alcohol and tobacco. > (and then your reply) > > 4. They were outlawed when we saw how much they were hurting economic productivity. > > 5. Too many. > > 6. See 2). 1. No, actually, they weren’t. 2. Uh huh. In other words you have no idea. 3. See #2. Why don’t you try actually doing some research on this issue before you spew your ignorance all over this board, hmm? ---
**Author:** ![Jello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@Jello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jello)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2000, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/44 "2000-05-21T22:28:18Z")
As some of you may have guessed, I like my statistics. Derleth said: > [@](#): > > If they’re using illegal drugs, with full knowledge of the risks involved, they obviously need rehab, because they’re addicted. Especially if the drug of choice is something like herion. According to the Book of Lists of the '90s, the addiction potential rate on drugs: > [@](#): > > 1. Nicotine: 100.00% > 2. Ice, glass (smoked): 98.53 > 3. Crack: 97.66 > 4. Crystal meth (injected): 94.09 > 5. Valium: 85.68 > 6. Quaalude: 83.38 > 7. Seconal: 82.11 > 8. Alcohol: 81.85 > 9. Heroin: 81.80 > 10. Crank (amphetamine taken orally): 81.09 > 11. Cocaine: 73.13 > 12. Caffeine: 72.01 > 13. PCP: 55.69 > 14. Marijuana: 21.16 > 15. Ecstasy: 20.14 > 16. Psilocybine mushrooms: 17.13 > 17. LSD: 16.72 > 18. Mescaline: 16.72 So heroin isn’t the worst one, addiction wise. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2000, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/45 "2000-05-21T22:32:37Z")
JFTR, I think the drug war should be ended, too. My earlier point was not in support of it, but just to show why it won’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![avalongod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@avalongod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/avalongod)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2000, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/46 "2000-05-21T23:18:34Z")
Cliffshaffer: You really interpret things through rose-tinted glasses. As a member of the NRA you would be one of those “guns don’t kill people…” folks. You and the “literature” you site are hopelessly slanting information to your pre-fabricated ideology. I did check out your web-site, and found it to be a gross distortion of the facts, selective-blindness, and something close to narcotics “witnessing” I would suggest you look to ACTUAL drug and substance use literature coming from dispassionate parties such as NIH or NIMH. Also run through any number of articles in JAMA, NEJM, or Am Psyche. No researcher worth his salt would support the highly erroenous viewpoints you suggest. At any rate you seem a bit too emotionally invested in this issue to carry on anything resembling a polite debate. Too bad. ---
**Author:** ![Initial\_Entry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e9a140/32.png) [@Initial\_Entry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Initial_Entry)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2000, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/47 "2000-05-21T23:31:07Z")
Please justify this statement. > [@](#): > > I would suggest you look to ACTUAL drug and substance use literature coming from dispassionate parties such as NIH or NIMH. Why would an official agency of a government strongly in favor of “the war on drugs” be considered dispassionate? Weren’t the NIH and NIMH involved with the earlier mariajuana studies? (You know, the “reefer madness” ones that were later thouroughly discredited?)(Note: this is a question, not a point. I don’t know if they were, though I suspect that they were.) ---
**Author:** ![avalongod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@avalongod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/avalongod)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2000, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/48 "2000-05-21T23:45:28Z")
No I don’t think the NIH or NIMH…although the government in general might have come out with something like that in complete absence of actual research. Wouldn’t be the first time. But if NIH or NIHM don’t suit you feel free to run a lit search through PsychInfo or MedLine. I am sure there must be a few reviews that sum up the literature. ---
**Author:** ![avalongod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@avalongod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/avalongod)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2000, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/49 "2000-05-21T23:51:35Z")
Cliffshaffer: Oh, and I knew people on this board were growing pot at home because one or two people actually said that they were. ---
**Author:** ![CliffSchaffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@CliffSchaffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CliffSchaffer)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2000, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/50 "2000-05-22T00:01:05Z")
\>Alright, I can’t say that marijuana is a harmful drug. Everything we ingest has potential harms associated with it. By comparison with other drugs, however, marijuana has a lower degree of harms than most. \>Crack, cocain, heroin, and acids, are another story. These things can and will kill (well, only unpure acids.) Really??? How many people do they kill in the US every year? Got any idea? Please include the number killed by alcohol and tobacco, if you know them. \> In all, though, I can’t say that this campagain against drugs is a bad idea at all. Yes, it costs the government money, but it does help. There are fewer drug addicts now than 10 years ago. No, that’s not true at all. You didn’t listen very closely when the Federal Government officials spoke on this issue. They have said the number of casual illegal drug users is down since 1980. The number of addicts is up by thirty percent in the same period of time. To make a comparison with alcohol, that is like reducing the number of people who have an occasional beer, while increasing the number of alcoholics. That is not a success. \>And drug addiction is a serious problem- it can destroy your life. (and this is just a ruthless way of driving up my post count.) If that is your concern, then alcohol leads the field in all those related problems. None of the illegal drugs is even close. That doesn’t mean that alcohol prohibition was a good idea. Quite the opposite, in fact. I take it you haven’t read any of the recommended reading yet. It shows. ---
**Author:** ![CliffSchaffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@CliffSchaffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CliffSchaffer)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2000, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/51 "2000-05-22T00:19:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Because getting beer does not usually involve stealing something. Use of these drugs didn’t either until they were made illegal, and it doesn’t involve stealing something in those areas where the governments have taken a different approach. And, of course, even the DEA admits that the vast majority of illegal drug users don’t commit any crimes. You did catch that point, didn’t you? > [@](#): > > They can easily do blood tests. So you come up with a false positive for meth because you took a cold pill that morning. Treatment is refused, and you are dead. > [@](#): > > Others have already commented on your lack of compassion. Another thing you apparently lack is a knowledge of medical ethics. Doctors wouldn’t do it. > > * * * > > Yes, they would. After getting the same stupid SOB in for cocaine overdose twice in the same night, you would too. No, they wouldn’t. I happen to know a great number of them in that field. > [@](#): > > If they’re using illegal drugs, with full knowledge of the risks involved, they obviously need rehab, No, even the DEA contradicts that point. > [@](#): > > because they’re addicted. No, that obviously isn’t true, either. Even the DEA says so. > [@](#): > > Especially if the drug of choice is something like herion. I think you meant “heroin”. And millions of people use a closely related drug on a regular basis with no apparent problems. In fact, it helps them to live a productive life. But you probably haven’t read any of the material I cited, so you wouldn’t really know, would you? > [@](#): > > How are they going to do that if they are in rehab? > > * * * > > They still have bank accounts. Bank accounts don’t last long if someone isn’t working. > [@](#): > > In other words, an excuse to loot the public. > > ------------------------------------------------------------A lot better than what the dealers do every day. No, you have it wrong again. Dealers make their money from people who give it voluntarily. > [@](#): > > No, we get what he owns, and his bank account. Which accomplishes what, exactly? > [@](#): > > So how many millions of people do you suppose you would have to execute? Please compare that with the number of people killed by the drug problem itself. > > ------------------------------------------------------------If you have your facts straight, this plan would kill fewer than the drugs would because more could be cured. So you missed the questions. Let’s try it again, and try actually answering the questions this time so we can see whether your statement above is correct. 1. How many millions of people do you propose to kill? 2. How many people are currently killed by drugs in the US? Do you know enough about the basic facts on the issue to be able to tell me how many are killed by drugs? I guess not. > [@](#): > > The only drug with any real association with violence is alcohol. See "Psychoactive Substances and Violence"by the US Dept. of Justice, at [http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/govpub/psycviol.htm](http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/govpub/psycviol.htm) If you want to achieve that goal, then you would have to work your plan on all the alcohol drinkers. > > ------------------------------------------------------------Have you forgotten about amphetamines? No, but you obviously didn’t read the Federal Government’s own research on that topic, because that reference mentions amphetamines. Try doing the reading before you ask questions that were already answered in the reference. > [@](#): > > If you had done any reading on the subject, you would know that even the DEA admits that the vast majority of illegal drug users are productive citizens who have no apparent problems with their illegal drug use. > > ------------------------------------------------------------We can cure those. Cure them of what? And how is that? By mass executions – the Heinrich Himmler solution to social problems? > [@](#): > > They deserve what they get, the idiots. And they will probably get it, without wasting my tax dollars on them. > [@](#): > > Good. We can help those. Help them do what? > [@](#): > > The rehab, not the drugs. As the Federal Government’s own drug warriors say, it would be a waste of time for most of them, whatever. Not to mention our tax dollars. > [@](#): > > I propose to kill those who are harmful. So how many is that? Got any clue at all? Can you answer any basic factual questions at all? > [@](#): > > If your facts are true, and the hopeless cases are so few, my plan would kill far less than drugs would. No, quite the opposite. You would know that if you had read any of the material already cited. > [@](#): > > Really? I think you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Let’s start with something simple. Can you answer some basic factual questions: > > 1. When and why were these drugs outlawed in the first place? > > 2. How many people use illegal drugs? > > 3. How many people are killed by drugs each year? Remember to include the totals for alcohol and tobacco. > > ------------------------------------------------------------1) They were outlawed when we saw how much they were hurting economic productivity. You didn’t say when and, no, you are wrong. You get a failing grade on that one. The laws had nothing to do with what you have suggested. > [@](#): > > 1. Too many. In other words, you don’t really have a clue. > [@](#): > > 1. See 2). And you can’t answer any factual question about the subject. > [@](#): > > The war on dugs is based on protecting society. Communisim was based on faulty economic theory. Nope, you guessed wrong again on the war on drugs. You really don’t know anything about this subject, I take it. ---
**Author:** ![CliffSchaffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@CliffSchaffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CliffSchaffer)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2000, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/52 "2000-05-22T00:27:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Cliffshaffer: > > You really interpret things through rose-tinted glasses. As a member of the NRA you would be one of those “guns don’t kill people…” folks. OK, so you have proved conclusively that you haven’t read anything on the subject. > [@](#): > > You and the “literature” you site are hopelessly slanting information to your pre-fabricated ideology. I did check out your web-site, and found it to be a gross distortion of the facts, selective-blindness, and something close to narcotics “witnessing” I would suggest you look to ACTUAL drug and substance use literature coming from dispassionate parties such as NIH or NIMH. Also run through any number of articles in JAMA, NEJM, or Am Psyche. No researcher worth his salt would support the highly erroenous viewpoints you suggest. There are the equivalent of a thousand books on the subject on my web site, all by different authors with different opinions, including a complete duplicate of the DEA web site. Which items in particular did you think were a gross distortion? Let’s take something simple for you. Just review the Major Studies of Drugs and Drug Policy page and tell me which of those studies were distorted, and how. And, if you were at all familiar with my site, you would know that the Office of National Drug Control Policy has sent me their documents to include on my site, because my site is internationally known as the best on the subject. And, of course, if you would have bothered to look very closely, you would have found that I ask people to suggest any research on drug policy that they think is better. Sorry, but the sources you cited don’t publish a lot on drug policy (you know, what to do about drug laws). Except of course, the NEJM which has come out publicly to disagree with US drug policy. > [@](#): > > At any rate you seem a bit too emotionally invested in this issue to carry on anything resembling a polite debate. Too bad. You could always come up with comparable references, if you have them. Or you could read the ones already cited. Like I said, I always invite people to submit something I missed. ---
**Author:** ![CliffSchaffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@CliffSchaffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CliffSchaffer)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2000, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/53 "2000-05-22T00:31:30Z")
> [@](#): > > No I don’t think the NIH or NIMH…although the government in general might have come out with something like that in complete absence of actual research. Wouldn’t be the first time. But if NIH or NIHM don’t suit you feel free to run a lit search through PsychInfo or MedLine. I am sure there must be a few reviews that sum up the literature. Sure there is. The report of the US National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse, conducted in 1970-73 by President Richard Nixon’s hand-picked law-and-order cronies. Surely you saw it in the list of the Major Studies of Drugs and Drug Policy you read so carefully on my site. Would you care to talk about the research, their biases and prejudices, and conclusions? Or did you even read it before you sounded off about it? ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2000, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/54 "2000-05-22T00:35:58Z")
I could have sworn that I put a winking smilie in my last post. I do think that **Derlith** ’s plan is as foolish as mine, but I was just joking. I wasn’t trying to piss him off. After reading derlith’s 2nd post though, this is what I have to say: My compassion lies with the people as a whole, not those stupid enough to propose Capital Punishment. ---
**Author:** ![avalongod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@avalongod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/avalongod)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2000, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/55 "2000-05-22T01:21:41Z")
Cliffshaffer: Huh-boy. Well here goes. From the DSM-IV: “Individuals who regularly use cannabis often report both physical and mental lethargy and anhedonia. Mild forms of depression, anxiety, or irritability are seen in about one-third of individuals who regularly use cannabis (daily or almost daily” The DSM-Iv goes on to point out the relationships between cannabis and automobile accidents and carcinogenic effects you earlier disputed. NIH: [Marijuana: Facts Parents Need to Know: A Letter to Parents | NIDA](http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/MarijparentsN.html) > **[Marijuana Anonymous](https://marijuana-anonymous.org/)** > > A fellowship of people who share our experience, strength, and hope to solve our common problem and help others to recover from marijuana addiction. DEA:[http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/marijuana.htm](http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/marijuana.htm) (didn’t you say the DEA was on your side?) Scholarly articles: (Linzen et al, 1994) (Martinez-Arvalo et al, 1994) (Siris, 1992) (Chesher, 1985) (Miczek et al, 1994) (Walfish, 1990) The list goes on and on… Here’s an example of the misinformation you propagate: I believe you stated something to the effect that the mean age of drug addicts in Amerstam is going up, thus indicating fewer young users. This is a gross misinterpretation of the statistics to fit your personal beliefs. All this statistic indicates is that the older drug addicts are getting older. Gee whiz. Consider this…in a small town we get 10 new addicts a year, each of them 20 years of age. Mean age=20, with me so far. Now each year subsequent, those addicts continue using, but we add 10 more users, each of them 20 years of age. By year 10 we have 10 thirty year old users, 10 twenty nine year old users…all the way down to 10 twenty year old users. Mean age=25. Now YOU would interpret this as no new addicts, while actually the number of new addicts has been exactly the same all along. This is your kind of misinformation. The information on your website is an alglamation of half-truths, selective interpretations, statistics and quotations taken out of context, and blatant wishful thinking. You are rationalizing information to suit your own selfish desire to not get in trouble for smoking pot, whatever the consequences to society at large. I do not mind adults sharing information between themselves, but children may read your crap sir, and lack the knowledge to examine it critically. Your propagation of this false information is morally reprehensible and you should be ashamed of yourself. (please all other debaters be aware I am speaking to CliffShaffer specificially…I am enjoying the rest of the debate.) ---
**Author:** ![Jello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@Jello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jello)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2000, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/56 "2000-05-22T01:28:41Z")
I basically disagree with everything you say. Why do you think we should essentially kill all drug users simply because they became addicted to something? I just want to know why you think that would be good and why that could help anyone’s situations. For anyone: If you are opposed to legalizing drugs for the purpose of using them as drugs, what about legalizing cannabis for industrial uses? What harm could that have, seeing as we help the environment by growing hemp paper instead of paper made from wood pulp? ---
**Author:** ![avalongod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@avalongod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/avalongod)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2000, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/57 "2000-05-22T01:34:31Z")
To JELLO: That actually makes sense, I guess the only reason the gov’t would be unlikely to agree is that the factory workers might sneak some of that stuff back home and sell it. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2000, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/58 "2000-05-22T01:58:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Decriminalization would also turn the entire US into one big Amersterdam, which is a mecca of petty crime, addiction, illness, prostitution, and depravity Which is, of course, completely unlike the way it is now. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Initial\_Entry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e9a140/32.png) [@Initial\_Entry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Initial_Entry)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2000, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/59 "2000-05-22T03:07:04Z")
> [@](#): > > I guess the only reason the gov’t would be unlikely to agree is that the factory workers might sneak some of that stuff back home and sell it. Actually industrial hemp hasn’t got a high enough THC content to get anyone high. (Well, unless you smoke _A Lot_) They might go home and sell it, but not more than once… ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2000, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012/60 "2000-05-22T03:39:20Z")
Cliff–as a med student who might eventually go into addiction medicine, I’ve spent a lot of time at your site, and I’ve always found the information useful and interesting. Thanks. One question, though: > [@](#): > > The only drug with any real association with violence is alcohol. The link to the cite for this was broken, so I couldn’t check it, but I believe PCP is generally associated with violent behavior. I could be wrong. A few points: –We’ve had a few addiction specialists lecture to us this past year, and they’ve all said the same thing about marijuana–it isn’t harmless, but it isn’t the devil incarnate. They agreed that the penalties for its use are certainly out of proportion to its detriment to society. –I can tell you for sure that doctors would not allow people to die just because they’ve used illicit drugs. Doctors are not in the business of making value judgements. By your logic, why should we save someone’s life if he’s having a heart attack because he ate fried cheese every day for 30 years? He knew what he was getting into. Dr. J [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-drug-war-be-ended/20012.md?page=4)