# Should the FBI make public its secret files on John Lennon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 30, 2004, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883 "2004-09-30T17:40:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883/1 "2004-09-30T17:40:30Z")
A U.S. District Court judge has just ordered the FBI to release the final 10 pages of previously unreleased information from its file on John Lennon. The FBI has until now refused to do so, on the grounds that the information was provided by an unnamed foreign government, and therefore publicizing it would be a national security risk. Link: [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=762&e=1&u=/ap/20040930/ap\_en\_mu/lennon\_files](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=762&e=1&u=/ap/20040930/ap_en_mu/lennon_files) What security risk could there possibly be after all this time? And why would the FBI continue to be so darn tight-lipped? Can you think of any possible scenario that would outweigh the public’s right to know? ---
**Author:** ![jk1245](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@jk1245](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jk1245)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883/2 "2004-09-30T21:49:50Z")
I would guess that the FBI is concerned that they are going to come across as paranoid fools more than anything else. They will will then be in the uncomfortable spot of trying to justify spending time and money surveiling someone who was clearly not a threat in any way. That, or it was really Lennon who shot JFK. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883/3 "2004-09-30T22:08:13Z")
> [@jk1245](#): > > I would guess that the FBI is concerned that they are going to come across as paranoid fools more than anything else. They will will then be in the uncomfortable spot of trying to justify spending time and money surveiling someone who was clearly not a threat in any way. But Lennon died in 1981. Everybody, or almost everybody, who was with the FBI then must have retired or died by now. Who stands to be embarrassed? ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883/4 "2004-09-30T22:31:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But Lennon died in 1981. Everybody, or almost everybody, who was with the FBI then must have retired or died by now. Who stands to be embarrassed? Correction: 1980. December 8. My guess is that the British provided the information, and that there would be some sort of uproar regarding how they obtained it (illegally, natch). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883/5 "2004-09-30T22:43:44Z")
> [@Rufus Xavier](#): > > Correction: 1980. December 8. > My guess is that the British provided the information, and that there would be some sort of uproar regarding how they obtained it (illegally, natch). But, again, who would that embarrass, who is still alive and still in government? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883/6 "2004-09-30T23:58:25Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > What security risk could there possibly be after all this time? And why would the FBI continue to be so darn tight-lipped? Can you think of any possible scenario that would outweigh the public’s right to know? I always thought they sealed those type of things for a certain amount of time to protect agents or sources. If figure out that X gave information about Y in 1980 they might also be able to figure out he gave information Z as well. Maybe this doesn’t apply to Lennon so much but it’s just a general policy. Marc ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883/7 "2004-10-01T00:05:07Z")
Maybe it’s because folks like the FBI and CIA engage in knee-jerk secrecy and stone-walling as a matter of course. It’s pretty common knowledge that our spooks go WAY WAY WAY overboard with the secrecy, costing you and I millions of unnecessary dollars. There was a guy on the FAS message board who played “Spot the Spook”, revealing addresses of suspiciously secret govt. facilities. Spook types got their panties in a wad over it, but basically, the guy just found places with the signature black chain-link fences and warning signs, stuff the Russians, et al already knew. These guys think they’re all James Bond, but they are really fucking stupid. We shoudn’t trust them with national security. ---
**Author:** ![jk1245](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@jk1245](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jk1245)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883/8 "2004-10-01T03:28:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But Lennon died in 1981. Everybody, or almost everybody, who was with the FBI then must have retired or died by now. Who stands to be embarrassed? I was thinking more along ther lines of “institutional embarassment”. You’re quite correct in stating that most people are gone that were directly involved. Still, the FBI doesn’t like looking like they went overboard at any point. The public doesn’t think along the lines of “Well, those people are all gone now. I’m sure everything’s fine” Too, I’m sure there is legitimate concern about revealing sources. Does anyone know if a report like this would explicitly state where the info came from? It seems unnecessary. Even if it’s there, couldn’t it just be redacted? **An Arky** also hits on the “knee-jerk” stonewalling tendency of the agencies involved (though I would disagree with his closing lines). ---
**Author:** ![legion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/838e76/32.png) [@legion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legion)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883/9 "2004-10-01T06:29:52Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > …And why would the FBI continue to be so darn tight-lipped? Can you think of any possible scenario that would outweigh the public’s right to know? My best guess is that they must have promised Paul McCartney complete anonimity. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883/10 "2004-10-01T09:42:22Z")
I always thought it suspicious that Yoko Ono didn’t get hit by a _single bullet_… ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883/11 "2004-10-01T11:46:51Z")
> [@jk1245](#): > > **An Arky** also hits on the “knee-jerk” stonewalling tendency of the agencies involved (though I would disagree with his closing lines). Sorry 'bout that. I got on a televangelist-esque roll. :o ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883/12 "2004-10-01T15:11:32Z")
Suppose a foreign intelligence source provided information on Lennon by virtue of that foreign intel service’s activities, and this information, along with its source, appears in the file. Perhaps this source was a young employee of a foreign government, and now he’s a highly-placed employee of that foreign government. Or even suppose he’s now retired. The exposure of his identity could lstill ead to reprisals against him. Or it could lead to the exposure of another agent he recruited during his career. How likely is all that? I have no idea. But since the OP asked for a possible scenario that outweighed the public’s right to know, there’s one. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883/13 "2004-10-01T15:24:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Suppose a foreign intelligence source provided information on Lennon by virtue of that foreign intel service’s activities, and this information, along with its source, appears in the file. > > Perhaps this source was a young employee of a foreign government, and now he’s a highly-placed employee of that foreign government. Or even suppose he’s now retired. The exposure of his identity could lstill ead to reprisals against him. Or it could lead to the exposure of another agent he recruited during his career. > > How likely is all that? I have no idea. But since the OP asked for a possible scenario that outweighed the public’s right to know, there’s one. Perhaps. But do all 10 pages of what is still being withheld still need to be classified to protect the identity of the informant? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883/14 "2004-10-01T15:43:16Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > Perhaps. But do all 10 pages of what is still being withheld still need to be classified to protect the identity of the informant? Again in the realm of the possible, not the probable or even the plausible… Sure. The information itself could lead to deductions about who the source is, even if the source’s name were redacted. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883/15 "2004-10-01T15:53:57Z")
There is nothing more sacred to intelligence gathering agencies than their sources. One disclosure, true, is usually not enough to expose a person or method, but several small things added up over the years can, and has, put agents’ lives at risk, and have rendered useless non-humit methods. So said agencies will tend to err on the side of caution, and put up with the lawsuits to shake loose information they believe may have a chance of endangering those assests. Do you really think the Justice Department, et al, would rather spend weeks in court over trivia just because they can, when just releasing the damn stuff will make the nuisance go away? I don’t buy it. There may be nothing about Lennon in those pages, but there is probably stuff in there that would affect their way of doing business. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Llama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@The\_Llama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Llama)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883/16 "2004-10-01T15:59:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Everybody, or almost everybody, who was with the FBI then must have retired or died by now. Sorry, just wanted to point out that this was only 24 years ago. My dad was a cop for almost 40 years. The retirement for the FBI is, I’m pretty sure, 20 years. You can’t truly believe that all of the FBI from 1980 is dead or retired. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883/17 "2004-10-01T16:21:52Z")
> [@Sean Factotum](#): > > Do you really think the Justice Department, et al, would rather spend weeks in court over trivia just because they can, when just releasing the damn stuff will make the nuisance go away? [nitpick] The Justice Dept. isn’t empowered to release the info; they are empowered to order the FBI to release it. I honestly don’t know whether the judge in this case has seen the unredacted FBI file _in camera;_ he may not know himself what’s in it. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-fbi-make-public-its-secret-files-on-john-lennon/266883/18 "2004-10-01T16:34:49Z")
I meant to change JD on preview, but got distracted by a typo, and promptly forgot all about using the wrong government agency. Thanks for the gentle nudge.