# Should the integrity of the English language be protected against bastardisation? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 14, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906 "2016-09-14T02:51:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/161 "2016-09-16T12:22:37Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Is German not a Germanic language? 😕 It most certainly is. However, my point was that “Seehund” isn’t “seal” (generic). It’s “harbour seal” (the specific species). A generic “seal” is “Robbe” in German. Thus my claim that “seehund” is “seal” is close, but not completely accurate. In Dutch, “zeehond” - and “robbe” BTW - translates as “seal” (generic). BTW, that the harbour seal is called “Seehund” in German isn’t very surprising. The harbor seal’s head has a rather dog-like profile, while the other common seal in those waters, the grey seal, has a more horse-like profile. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/162 "2016-09-16T13:13:45Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > Now let’s see some meaningful gibberish. That’s the good stuff. “And now I’d like to introduce tonight’s distinguished speaker, The Samuel Johnson Professor of Applied Orthography - Dr. Gabby Johnson.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/163 "2016-09-16T13:48:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’d no idea that was a thing. Ew. Pretty much any spelling error that can be made will be made. I guess you could call it Murfy’s Law. What is erroneous is to think that this sort of thing is more common than it used to be. In fact, missing apostrophes and spelling errors on commercial signage are old new. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/164 "2016-09-16T15:08:46Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > Now let’s see some meaningful gibberish. That’s the good stuff. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ke5Mr5eCF2U/hqdefault.jpg "Authentic Frontier Gibberish") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke5Mr5eCF2U) ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/165 "2016-09-16T15:52:23Z")
Trump Junior came up with one: > [@](#): > > “They’ve let her [Hillary] slide on every **indiscrepancy** , on every lie, on every DNC game trying to get Bernie Sanders out of this thing. If Republicans were doing that, they’d be warming up the gas chamber right now.” We may espouse new words, if we have Shakespearean eloquence or Einstein’s creativity. If not, colloquial English suffices. We have 171,476 words at our disposal, along with 47,156 obsolete words. Help yourself. Yet indiscrepancy [sic] is the flyspeck. “They’d be warming up the gas chamber right now,” is the abomination. But, of course, the Trumps are graded on a curve so this doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/166 "2016-09-16T16:07:21Z")
Hi iLemming. I too am occasionally irked by people who use words they don’t really understand because they think they sound good. > [@iLemming](#): > > ̶ > It’s one thing to give the ‘handicapped’ a “Common Core” leg-up in order to bring them up to speed with wider society. Giving people a leg-up raises them to a new level; it does not accelerate them to a faster speed. > [@](#): > > This continuous dilution of the English language by the _Sound-it-out Brigade_, is a slippery slope towards the destruction of the core tenets of the tongue. The process of dilution cannot be a slope, slippery or otherwise. You perhaps meant to say that, "the continuous dilution of the English language…_leads to_ a slippery slope, or perhaps, “…_places us on_ a slippery slope”; either is better, but neither really escapes the problems inherent in your mixing of metaphors. > [@](#): > > This _laissez-faire_ apathy regarding the integrity of the language, invariable leads to the “alot”, “bigly”, “wont”, “alright”, “hugely” _et al._ cancerous neologisitic phenomena that, through sheer weight of hoi polloi usage, can even influence linguistics itself – with dictionaries incorporating some of these patently misspelt and often unintelligible terms. “Laissez-faire apathy” is a tautologous pleonasm: there is no interventionist apathy. You meant of course to say invariably, not invariable, but this is doubtless a typo. (_Bonus dormitat Homerus_, after all.) “hoi polloi” is a noun, but in the phrase “hoi polloi usage” you are attempting to use it as an adjective. Either that or you have forgotten to make it possessive. (I.e. you would not speak of the “the common people usage”, but “the common people’s usage”.) [quote] English is not the conjugation convoluted and superfluously lettered French language; nor is it the arcane, multitudinous runic, _chinois_ communication method of Mandarin. [quote] Firstly, “conjugation convoluted” should take a hyphen. “Multitudinous runic” is nonsense. “Mulitudinously runic” is also nonsense, but at least has the correct grammatical form. It is otiose to describe Mandarin as Chinese, even if you do so in French. The greater flaw in this sentence becomes apparent if we remove the modifiers: “English is not French; nor is it Mandarin.” True, but banal. A better formulation would be “Unlike French, English is not…;nor, unlike Mandarin, is it…” > [@](#): > > English is actually a very facile language to learn – albeit difficult to master. Facile means superficial, not easy. E.g. “An easy mistake to make, if your approach to language is facile”. > [@](#): > > As such, there is no rational reasoning behind this systematic **dumbing down** of the language, all for little more than to indulge the very demographic whose existence undermines it. To use a _du jour_ analogy (and another Gallicism!), A stylistic issue rather than a grammatical one: if you are attempting to write in a noticeably clever or erudite fashion, have the grace and self-confidence to avoid drawing attention to the effort you are making. > [@](#): > > Availing the French as an example once more; the French language attracts actual legislation which serves to protect its fundamentals from the nefarious ‘infection’ of such broached numbskull neologia. “Avail” as an intransitive verb means to be of use or to serve (e.g. “This well-meant advice on writing availed him little.”) but you do not here intend to be of use to the French, as an example or in any other way. You meant to _use_ them as an example, in which case you should say “Availing _ourselves of_ the French as an example”. If you’ve heard others use a word but don’t fully understand what it means, it’s probably best to avoid using it yourself until you can check how to do so properly. Time presses, alas, so I will stop here. I hope this helps - it’s good that you tried but expressing ideas clearly can be tricky. Don’t be discouraged. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/167 "2016-09-16T16:08:33Z")
And a shiny sixpence to whoever finds the errors I undoubtedly made above. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/168 "2016-09-16T16:18:23Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > And a shiny sixpence to whoever finds the errors I undoubtedly made above. I’ve got but a lousy trumpence, guvnir.☹ ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/169 "2016-09-16T16:49:29Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > And a shiny sixpence to whoever finds the errors I undoubtedly made above. Do coding errors count? Otherwise: \ ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/170 "2016-09-16T17:03:10Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Do coding errors count? > > Otherwise: \ Goddammit. And I missed a space after a semicolon. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/171 "2016-09-16T17:09:26Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Goddammit. And I missed a space after a semicolon. And your opening line should have been: [INDENT]Hi, iLemming.[/INDENT] But that’s why pencils have razors! ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/172 "2016-09-16T17:27:31Z")
Man, that’s a cry in shame. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/173 "2016-09-16T19:35:20Z")
Eres grande **Stanislaus**! ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/174 "2016-09-16T20:00:33Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Man, that’s a cry in shame. A Crimean Shade? ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/175 "2016-09-16T20:09:08Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > A Crimean Shade? A Crime and a Shade? ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/176 "2016-09-16T22:36:48Z")
Crimean river. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/177 "2016-09-17T10:53:33Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Sulfur was introduced in anglo-french with an F spelling. The PH spelling in English was a later invention, and its standardization over F didn’t occur until the late 19th century. Only to be reversed when IUPAC and RSC reinstated F. IUPAC had a good reason for that. It’s an international organization and, strange as it may seem, most languages do not have the spelling convention that PH is pronounced /f/. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Hang on, I was somehow under the impression the OP was a joke post. iLemming had another thread not too long ago, which I’m too lazy to look up at this hour. It was quite similar in tone. I eventually concluded he was engaging in performance art. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/178 "2016-09-17T15:51:35Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Now I have an insane curiosity to know whether in German it should be “Der Google” or “die” or “das”. Does anyone happen to know? If any of our German Dopers drive by they may be able to correct me, but what I remember hearing my coworkers say is just “Google”. It’s a proper noun, not a generic noun, so it carries no article. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/179 "2016-09-17T16:58:51Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > If any of our German Dopers drive by they may be able to correct me, but what I remember hearing my coworkers say is just “Google”. It’s a proper noun, not a generic noun, so it carries no article. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906/180 "2016-09-23T09:02:35Z")
> [@iLemming](#): > > Herein lurks my underlying, albeit florally vested, point: > The need for people to use their brains, in order to communicate, is becoming of lesser and lesser importance. Be it the shorthand acronyms and initialisms brought about through necessity as an offshoot of the limited-character “texting” (:rolleyes:) Age, or thus ‘miss-sounded-out’ expression in question – the resultant dumbing down of the language is undeniable. > > C’mon – sweep the caltrops of ‘offence’ aside for once and let us call a ‘dig stick’ a spade, Homer J.'s: **only those that do not read or endeavour to learn to spell (…you know, proper-like), would misinterpret such expressions and phrases in the manner they all too often demonstrate.** I’d wager a refulgent, pristine, fresh from the Palestinian nickle mine, _Bank of Yaweh’s Chosen Ones_ shekel, that 99% of those not ‘academically endowed’ who ‘unironically’ write / type / eruct the word “wont”, are not availing its definition of **custom / habit / consuetude** ; rather, the dingleberries actually intend to mean **WON’T** … but are [both] too lazy to scribe / hen-peck an opportune apostrophe, much less pick up a dictionary (post dropping out for _Ghetto Creed Community College_) to “check” their bastardisation privilege. Surely, such slovenly traits are not to be encouraged, much less lauded… surely?! :dubious: > > If neuroscience teaches us that something as rudimentary as taking a different rat race route to our work-a-day iCubicals, can help to stave of degenerative brain disease, what net, long term effect does, for yawl intestine proposals, _dumbing down_ our most fundamental mode of interacting with society? It must, therefore. follow that if the “affirmative action” of lowering the threshold for required neural pathway construction is instituted, thereby reducing the quantum of neural pathways that are created, ergo the extant neural pathways diminished, and resultant brain activity constricted; vis-à-vis, we arive at … M.A.G.A.!! > > I am not even remotely postulating that new words should not be recognised in the gamut of English vocabulary. Neologisms have built the English language – 'twas always thus and always thus shall be. My assertion is that the systematic simplification of speaking and communicating - for a language that is not even approaching Klingon level in its complexity - has inimical side-effects that pollute farther out into our spæcial (bring it, n00bs! 🆒) seas than merely how titillated teenagers “sext” their “dick / tit pic”-accompanying pillow talk to one another. > > Make no mistake, my watery-eared readers – this rabbit hole descends deep and will become as dark and as swarthy[¹] as night. I am anything but niggardly[²]. Thus I am here offering my humble Mad Hatter services, at your oblige–as a guide, to your eyes-wide-shut selves’–torchbearer of enlightenment and elucidation–so we, together, brothers in arms, can delve into the miasma of obfuscation and Machiavellian mystery, weaved by the Bohemian Grooves and Bilderburger reptilians, on the chemtrail laced, gold-bullion-backed trek towards… the truth! > [1] That’s not what it reads / ‘sounds out’ like… > [2] No offen[SIZE=“5”]ce intended to any cherry-picking[³] BLM readers[/SIZE] > [3] To reiterate: that’s cherry-picking – [SIZE=“5”] **CHERRY** [/SIZE] …uh oh :eek: Dude, if you think somehow you’re championing prescriptivism, let me tell you; you’re being horribly ineffective at it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-integrity-of-the-english-language-be-protected-against-bastardisation/765906.md?page=10)