# Should the King holiday be abolished? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 21, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405 "2008-01-21T20:20:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/21 "2008-01-21T21:43:10Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] What is “leaf peeping”? [/QUOTE] Leaf peeping is the practice of observing the change of leaf color in the autumn. It is especially enjoyable in the form of, say, a leisurely drive along the Blue Ridge Parkway. It’s quite spectacular. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/22 "2008-01-21T21:44:41Z")
Martin Luther King is not the only American to have a U.S. federal holiday in his name. Washington’s Birthday is also celebrated. Also, there are plenty of state holidays that honor other Americans. For example, Florida celebrated Robert E. Lee’s birthday a couple days ago. We also have state holidays honoring Presidents Lincoln and Davis. We’re a little schizophrenic down here. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/23 "2008-01-21T21:46:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Martin Luther King, Jr. is the only American to have a holiday in his name. Maybe as a national holiday. But here in VA, we just “celebrated” Jackson and Lee Day. Imagine celebrating the heros of the Confederacy just a couple of days before celebrating the hero the civil rights movement. Personally, I loved the four day weekend. But the irony of it all can’t be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/24 "2008-01-21T21:47:23Z")
MLK is probably one of the greatest Americans to ever live. He was one of the most amazing citizens this country has ever had the good fortune to produce. Hell yes he should be honored with his own holiday. As for him chasing women, good for him, as long as they were consenting I don’t care. Any issues of marital fidelity were between him and Coretta. None of my business or concern. As for him plagiarizing? If I was evaluating him as a scholar, I’d say he sucked. If I was evaluating him as on the figures in the fight for social justice in America, I’d say his scholarly habits were irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/25 "2008-01-21T21:47:47Z")
[QUOTE=MGibson] I don’t have anything against MLK but I’d say the holiday exist because people like having a day off and not because they feel like honoring him. Seriously, how many people here use this day to celebrate the life of MLK? Without this thread I don’t think I would have given two thoughts about MLK today. [/QUOTE] Fair enough. But I thought the holiday came into existence because the idea of honoring him gained enough popular support. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/26 "2008-01-21T21:48:49Z")
Say **monstro** , does Virginia also do the segregated Memorial Days thing? ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/27 "2008-01-21T21:51:56Z")
[QUOTE=dalej42] King was a womanizer who was with prostitutes the night before he was shot. He also plagiarized his dissertation. Since he is usually referred to as “Dr. King,” I think that is relevant. [/QUOTE] You have a very low threshhold for “despicable”. Is there anyone besides your dear mum who could be considered of adequate moral fibre? ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/28 "2008-01-21T21:59:04Z")
Not only should the King holiday be celebrated, it should be commercialized the way Labor Day and Memorial Day are. “I hve a dream that all men should afford fine new Toyota cars and light trucks…” His womanizing and whoring would be of greater concern if his mission in life had been to stamp out the scourge of extramarital sex. If it ever turns out that he owned slaves, get back to me. Or compile a list of great Americans who are demonstrably pure and free of sexual innuendo. My guess is, that’s a pretty short list. You gotta take the good with the bad. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/29 "2008-01-21T22:06:06Z")
[QUOTE=dalej42] King was a womanizer who was with prostitutes the night before he was shot. He also plagiarized his dissertation. Since he is usually referred to as “Dr. King,” I think that is relevant. [/QUOTE] Ok, let me just ask for a cite here regarding the prostitutes the night before the assassination. In a cursory search I found one. > [@](#): > > But King had dozens of liaisons with prostitutes, White and Black, used church money to pay them and commonly beat them - all documented by the FBI and admitted by King associates. > > King even spent the night before his assassination copulating with and beating White prostitutes. On the FBI surveillance tapes the “Reverend King” can be heard during intercourse to say, " I’m f—ing for God!" and “I’m not a Negro tonight!” That illustrative quote comes from none other than David duke in his book [“My Awakening”](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:k_8woLfvdZIJ:www.martinlutherking.org/ma-chapter18.html+Martin+Luther+king+Russian+prostitutes&hl=en&client=firefox-a) (Thank Og that in his mercy, Mr. Duke spared us seeing en entire F-word typed out. That would be vulgar.) So I am calling you out for a valid cite that comes from a reputable source. In particular I am looking for a cite saying he was with prostitutes the night before he was shot. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/30 "2008-01-21T22:18:22Z")
I don’t care either way on the topic, but hate to see the OP get ganged up on so will offer this bit published by the highly reputable Cecil Adams! _Did he spend donated money on prostitutes? The most sordid charges about MLK’s sex life, this one included, come from the FBI and can’t necessarily be trusted. But there’s no doubt about what one biographer calls King’s “compulsive sexual athleticism.” King’s attitude toward women was chauvinist and often exploitative. In his 1989 autobiography, And the Walls Came Tumbling Down, King’s close friend and fellow civil rights leader Ralph Abernathy writes that on the night before he died, King gave a rousing speech, had dinner with a woman afterward and remained with her till 1 AM, then came back to his motel to spend the night with a second woman. In the early morning hours a third woman came looking for King and became angry when she found the bed in the room he shared with Abernathy unoccupied. When King reappeared, he argued with woman #3 and wound up knocking her across the bed._ ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/31 "2008-01-21T22:19:58Z")
[QUOTE=newcrasher] So I am calling you out for a valid cite that comes from a reputable source. In particular I am looking for a cite saying he was with prostitutes the night before he was shot. [/QUOTE] And while you’re at it, a cogent argument as to why we should give a shit even if it is true. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/32 "2008-01-21T22:35:15Z")
Would the OP have less of a problem with it if the holiday were called “Civil Rights Day” or something like that? ---
**Author:** ![Ganryu\_Kojiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Ganryu\_Kojiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ganryu_Kojiro)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/33 "2008-01-21T22:35:57Z")
Not to offer an opinion one way or the other (oh, hell. Yes, he deserves a holiday), but here’s a [cite.](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030502.html) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/34 "2008-01-21T22:45:32Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Washington’s birthday was a national holiday (and still sort of is) . [/QUOTE] _Still_ _ **IS** _. The Federal statute that sets a National Holiday on the third Monday in February makes it the observance of \* **Washington’s** Birthday\*. Cites: [http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts\_search.pl?title=5&sec=6103](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=5&sec=6103) [![](https://www.archives.gov/files/publications/prologue/2004/winter/images/uniform-monday-holiday-law.jpg) ](https://www.archives.gov/files/publications/prologue/2004/winter/images/uniform-monday-holiday-law.jpg) > **[FACT CHECK: What Is Presidents Day?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/presidents-day/)** > > History: What are we celebrating on the holiday known as 'Presidents Day'? Is it really a holiday? Calling it “Presidents’ Day” is a combination of hallmarkization and some local governments deciding to claim that Lincoln’s Birthday was crammed in there too, as long as there was a day off in mid-February. In any case, national holidays allusive to a historic figures can be a celebration of the person, or a celebration of what s/he meant to/for the nation. The later is IMO most advisable, since it’s damn hard to find a great leader whom you can hold up as exempt from moral failures. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/35 "2008-01-21T23:04:57Z")
[QUOTE=dalej42] Martin Luther King, Jr. is the only American to have a holiday in his name. Is Martin Luther King really that worthy of a national holiday? I personally find him to be a despicable person. Is political correctness the only reason this holiday still exists? Columbus Day would have been abolished years ago if it wasn’t such a convenient leaf peeping day. [/QUOTE] See, this is one of those questions that it’s tough to decide how to answer. Not because the answer is hard but because the framing of the question suggests a closed mind. It’s a waste of time to defend Dr King’s legacy if your criteria for diminishing that legacy revolve around poor scholarship and womanizing. You might ask yourself this, though, if those key to your objections: Should we have a holiday celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ? I mean here’s a guy that didn’t make it past grade school. Worse, when an adulterer was brought before him for judgment, he so shamed the accusers that they melted away. And if you haven’t applied those same criteria to Christmas…what do you think the reason is that it did not occur to you do so? ---
**Author:** ![JohnnieEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@JohnnieEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnieEnigma)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/36 "2008-01-21T23:11:36Z")
abolishing King’s holiday is a completely rediculous notion. We need to add more holidays if anything. We’re over-worked in this country… there aren’t enough holidays as it is. Oh, were you referring to the justification of a King holiday? 😉 Of course he should be honored with a national holiday. He was a great role model for the civil rights movement that needs to be recognizied - and we need to honor this cause. Why is this even in question? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/37 "2008-01-21T23:25:40Z")
Even were he not deserving (and I strongly agree that he is), taking it back now couldn’t be interpreted any other way by colored folks except as a slap in the face and a flip of the bird. And I couldn’t blame them one bit, either. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/38 "2008-01-21T23:39:26Z")
[QUOTE=JohnnieEnigma] abolishing King’s holiday is a completely rediculous notion. [/QUOTE] [pet peeve] I know I’m tempting **Gaudere** ’s Law to strike me down, but, blarg! The word is “ridiculous”. As in, something that would expose one to _ridicule_. The word is _not_ “rediculous”. As in, to diculous… again. [/pp] ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/39 "2008-01-21T23:57:50Z")
I cannot believe this is even a question. MLK was an extremely relevant person in American history. Who cares what he did with his dick? Bill Clinton cast a wide net with his penis and many still think of him as a great President…and I’m not particularly fond of him as a person, but I still respect some of the things he accomplished. Now, if it was like, 50-Cent Day or something, then you might be on to something. ---
**Author:** ![DJ\_Motorbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90ced4/32.png) [@DJ\_Motorbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DJ_Motorbike)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405/40 "2008-01-22T00:02:02Z")
[QUOTE=JohnnieEnigma] abolishing King’s holiday is a completely rediculous notion. We need to add more holidays if anything. We’re over-worked in this country… there aren’t enough holidays as it is. [/QUOTE] Yes, please add more holidays that only government employees have off. Yippie. (sarcasm) I’ve never had President’s day, MLK day, Flag day, Columbus Day or any of the days that only Government workers have off. I call them the “What do you mean there’s no mail . . . oh . . . right.” holidays. We don’t need more of those. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-king-holiday-be-abolished/434405.md?page=3)