# should the LotR movies be made? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 1999, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888 "1999-09-17T14:32:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 1999, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/21 "1999-09-18T05:38:00Z")
Dramatoig: What exactly is “roto-scoping”? Is that the technique where he filmed live-action, real people and then turned them into animated figures? ---
**Author:** ![dramatoig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e0b2c6/32.png) [@dramatoig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dramatoig)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 1999, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/22 "1999-09-18T05:41:00Z")
Yep. Among animation “purists” (like myself ;-)), this is seen as something of a cheap dodge–plus it generally looks strange and out of place next to more traditional animation. Not that it can’t have its place–I think it is used to excellent effect in Bakshi’s “Wizards” (IMHO a more interesting film than his LOTR), and, if pressed, the Ringwraiths sort of get an other-wordly look from it as well. * * * “You must not mind me madam; I say strange things, but I mean no harm.” Samuel Johnson ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 1999, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/23 "1999-09-18T05:45:00Z")
Okay, thanks for the info. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AuraSeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c2a13f/32.png) [@AuraSeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuraSeer)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 1999, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/24 "1999-09-18T05:57:00Z")
For a list of what was wrong with the animated LOTR: [http://www.speakeasy.org/~ohh/bakshi.htm](http://www.speakeasy.org/~ohh/bakshi.htm) I hope the live-action treatment works better. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 1999, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/25 "1999-09-17T18:53:00Z")
As a big LotR fan, I’m excited they’re going to try; if it sucks, it won’t spoil the book for ME. In fact, I’d say there’s no way ANY movie can top a really great book like Lord. But then again, I’ve been put off reading Dune by the movie. On the third hand, most people who see the movie and don’t like it probably weren’t going to read it anyway; whereas some people wh DO like it will, along with people–kids–who (gasp!) never heard of it before, and those who keep hearing “not as good as the book” in conversations. So I don’t see how a movie, however bad, would do anything but increase readership. I’m out of the states and too lazy to dig so: Are we looking at one movie or three? Tell me they’rer not going to give this less than seven hours. * * * “It all started with marbles in school…” ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 1999, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/26 "1999-09-17T18:57:00Z")
> [@](#): > > They’re taking out Tom Bombadil? Heresy! Who’s going to rescue the hobbits from the barrow, then? IIRC, it was Tom that did that, wasn’t it? Tom Bombadil rescues the hobbits twice, first rescuing Merry and Pippen from the clutches of Old Man Willow, then rescuing the whole foursome from the barrow-wight. Over the years, critics have always had trouble treating Tom Bombadil as anything other than an unnecessary interlude in the story. The character was someone Tolkein had played with for some time prior to writing LotR, and his inclusion was probably a foregone conclusion for that reason, if no other. But one has to ask: did he really advance the plot in any significant way? That is, does Frodo manage to obtain from Bombadil anything of lasting value in his quest to destroy the Ring? Obviously, those who cut this interlude out of re-tellings feel he didn’t. (sigh) As for the movie concept itself, in light of the stunning special effects available and on display in the recent Star Wars film, clearly some sort of similar treatment would make the LotR quite an enjoyable movie. But it would take a LOT of computer work. Small budgets are NOT the way to manage it… Nevertheless, I can’t WAIT to see Goodgulf standing up to the Ballhog on the bridge over the chasm in the dread Andrea Doria… oh, wait… wrong book… ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 1999, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/27 "1999-09-17T18:59:00Z")
> [@](#): > > They’re taking out Tom Bombadil? Heresy! Who’s going to rescue the hobbits from the barrow, then? IIRC, it was Tom that did that, wasn’t it? Tom Bombadil rescues the hobbits twice, first rescuing Merry and Pippen from the clutches of Old Man Willow, then rescuing the whole foursome from the barrow-wight. Over the years, critics have always had trouble treating Tom Bombadil as anything other than an unnecessary interlude in the story. The character was someone Tolkein had played with for some time prior to writing LotR, and his inclusion was probably a foregone conclusion for that reason, if no other. But one has to ask: did he really advance the plot in any significant way? That is, does Frodo manage to obtain from Bombadil anything of lasting value in his quest to destroy the Ring? Obviously, those who cut this interlude out of re-tellings feel he didn’t. (sigh) As for the movie concept itself, in light of the stunning special effects available and on display in the recent Star Wars film, clearly some sort of similar treatment would make the LotR quite an enjoyable movie. But it would take a LOT of computer work. Small budgets are NOT the way to manage it… Nevertheless, I can’t WAIT to see Goodgulf standing up to the Ballhog on the bridge over the chasm in the dread Andrea Doria… oh, wait… wrong book… ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 1999, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/28 "1999-09-17T19:08:00Z")
And I assume the cast is all unknowns? This is the best way to go. As a party game, who would you cast? Were he alive and had he never done Star Wars, Alec Guiness could play Gandalf. As it is, I think that’ll be their hardest casting job. For the rest, Howabout: Keanu Reeves as Strider/Aragorn Corey Feldman as Frodo Herve Villachaize as Sam John Goodman as Tom Bombadil Samuel L. Jackson as Elrond and Bobcat Goldthwait (remember him?) as Gollum. Tarantino can direct. I want to hear Hobbits cursing. anyone taking me seriously will be shot. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 1999, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/29 "1999-09-17T19:18:00Z")
I think John Goodman could be a great Tom Bombadil. He has that playful, yet potentially dangerous quality. On second thought he might be better as Beorn. I always get those two mixed up. Anyway, I think the most interesting thing about Bombadil was his immunity to the Ring. I can see why they would leave him out of the movie for streamlining reasons. But I enjoyed his presence in the book as a suggestion that Middle Earth had a mysterious past life that was dying out. ---
**Author:** ![dramatoig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e0b2c6/32.png) [@dramatoig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dramatoig)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 1999, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/30 "1999-09-17T19:19:00Z")
I’ve heard rumors of most of the cast– Elijah Wood is Frodo (Without commenting on Wood specifically as Frodo, I do like the fact that Jackson is not casting midgets as the hobbits–something the description of hobbits in LOTR by Tolkien would support. Then again, he is using computers to “shrink” them, and wondering how this is going to look makes me nervous.) Ian McKellan as Gandalf (I LOVE this–McKellan is one of my favorite actors.) Yeesh, I can’t remember anyone else–there was an article in Entertainment Weekly either this week or last which listed some more. Furt, to answer your question, yes, they are doing three movies–in fact, New Line has given Jackson “enough” money to film all three at once! No Bakshi double-dealing here. Young, one thing I have to say in Jackson’s defense relative to the budget is that he has said that, as he is using his own effects company to do the effects, and is filming all three at once, he doesn’t need as much money as we might think (and he intends on a lot of effects from what I’ve read.) Now, whether that will work in practice or not, we’ll have to wait until 2001 (groan) to find out… * * * “You must not mind me madam; I say strange things, but I mean no harm.” Samuel Johnson ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 1999, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/31 "1999-09-17T19:36:00Z")
Will thy all come out at once, or at 6 month intervals, or what? And Goodman was the one I was semi-serious about. I’m thinking of his work in Barton Fink (final scene aside). I’d love Mel Gibson as Strider, were this 1980. But he’s way too familiar now. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 1999, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/32 "1999-09-17T19:36:00Z")
In the “Hobbits’ Ears” thread, pldennison wrote: > [@](#): > > For anyone who is interested, Aussie director Peter Jackson (“Dead Alive,” “The Frighteners,” “Heavenly Creatures”) is making a live-action LOTR trilogy for New Line Cinema. The trilogy is being filmed over 18 months in New Zealand, then post-production is expected to take 18 additional months. He is using a combination of well-known actors and unknowns for the cast; for the nonhuman characters, he will be using new digital effects to “shrink” them in proportion to the humans. Some of the casting includes Sean Astin as Sam Gamgee, Elijah Wood as Frodo, Ian McKellen as Gandalf and John Rhys-Davies as Boromir. They have a website with info and conceptual art at [www.lotr.net](http://www.lotr.net) . It’s a pleasure to at long last be able to quote Phil without disagreeing with him! : ---
**Author:** ![danielnsmith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c89c15/32.png) [@danielnsmith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danielnsmith)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 1999, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/33 "1999-09-17T20:36:00Z")
I just hope that these movies are not just a show piece for Peter Jackson. Not only was _Dune_ a murder of a good story, but also _2001_. These movies took great stories and obliterated them for a shot at special effects awards. The only thing in their defense is that if you were to translate the stories directly into books, the movie would take 4 hours to show. As for the lots of traveling in LOTR, a lot of this will probably be cut out to shorten the length of the movie. ---
**Author:** ![dramatoig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e0b2c6/32.png) [@dramatoig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dramatoig)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 1999, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/34 "1999-09-17T20:43:00Z")
Hey, furt, how about Goodman as Barliman Butterbur? To add to Polycarp’s quote, I believe that Ray Park is involved in the movie to some extent at well. Of course, this could just be some wild fanboy rumor… * * * “You must not mind me madam; I say strange things, but I mean no harm.” Samuel Johnson ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 1999, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/35 "1999-09-17T21:22:00Z")
“Tim Tim Benzadrine Boo, hash, Valvoline. First, second, neutral,park Hie thee hence you leafy narc!” Damn your eyes, DSYoung, now I have to see if my copy survived the Eighties… ---
**Author:** ![Narile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@Narile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Narile)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 1999, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/36 "1999-09-17T23:22:00Z")
The amount Jackson was given to do all three movies is not ‘shoestring’ it is not Titanic level, but is not shoestring. I believe that the amount he was given would translate into about $240 million in Hollywierd. [www.aint-it-cool-news.com](http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com) has a lot of information on the film as well. * * * \>\>Being Chaotic Evil means never having to say your sorry…unless the other guy is bigger than you.\<\< —The dragon observes ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 1999, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/37 "1999-09-18T00:13:00Z")
AuraSeer wrote: > [@](#): > > For a list of what was wrong with the animated LOTR: [http://www.speakeasy.org/~ohh/bakshi.htm](http://www.speakeasy.org/~ohh/bakshi.htm) Wow, I’m flabbergasted at all the things this guy found wrong with Bakshi’s cartoon. What amazes me the most, though, is the fact that they advertised the movie as “The Complete” Lord of the Rings when it first came out, not as “Lord of the Rings Part I.” I would have demanded my money back if I’d seen it in a theater with the expectation that it was complete. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 1999, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/38 "1999-09-18T00:18:00Z")
There WAS an animated “Return of the King” filmed, though. Not by Bakshi, but I know I’ve seen it. Little help here? -andros- * * * There’s always a bigger fish. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 1999, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/39 "1999-09-18T00:19:00Z")
Well, “filmed” was a poor choice of wording. But you get the idea. -a- ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 1999, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888/40 "1999-09-18T00:24:00Z")
Yeah, there was a Rankin-Bass cartoon called “The Return of the King” (the same folks who made “The Hobbit”), but it was spoiled, IMHO, by its incessant use of a minstrel singing inane songs about “Frodo of the Nine Fingers” and other such drivel. It was a kids’ flick, mostly, not like Bakshi’s adaptation at all, so you really can’t call it a genuine sequel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-lotr-movies-be-made/16888.md?page=3)