# Should the Minimum Wage Be Increased to $15? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 28, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945 "2021-02-28T14:26:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrickBat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@BrickBat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrickBat)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2021, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/61 "2021-02-28T20:46:10Z")
Interesting chart, thanks. I’ve DL it for future references. > [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Yeah. It’s insane, and has easily earned its place in The Book of Big American Lies. In 40 years, I’ve never seen this discussed in the MSM. I’ve heard it discussed only obliquely on talk radio, and with a bum’s rush by the host to quash it, or on social media. Here’s a 5 minute Ted Talk video where Nick Hanauer skewers the great lie. Best part is at about 2:50 in: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/hX5poAfZ1k8/maxresdefault.jpg "TED Talk - Nick Hanauer: why rich people don't create jobs") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX5poAfZ1k8) ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2021, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/62 "2021-02-28T22:00:11Z")
Entry-level jobs such as Walmart, McDonalds, etc. pay MORE than $7.50, and have for some time now. The people arguing to increase the minimum wage are making the wrong argument. The free market has shown that, in most situations, the minimum wage is **obsolete**. Therefore, the minimum wage should not be increased. Instead, it should be repealed altogether on the national level, and let individual states do as they will. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2021, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/63 "2021-02-28T22:07:54Z")
That depends on where you live - and which entry level job you get. Some corporations have committed to paying “pretty well” - but not all of them. And some markets have to pay higher wages to get people into jobs - while other markets don’t. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2021, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/64 "2021-02-28T22:08:14Z")
No. But if we are going to increase it let’s just bump it to $50/hr and see how well that works. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2021, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/65 "2021-02-28T22:28:36Z")
yawn. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2021, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/66 "2021-02-28T22:37:58Z")
I remember watching Hanauer’s talk. Watched again from that 2:50 mark. It’s rare for me to say “not a thing with which I disagree …,” but, yeah: “A rising tide lifts all ships” is simply another chapter in The Big Lie, and could not have _less_ in common with the trickle down that we have yet to repudiate. You may find part of another SD MW discussion interesting. I’ll humbly point you to one of my contributions: > [@Effects of Minimum Wage](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/effects-of-minimum-wage/920726/60): > > That’s a fair point, but we don’t see relatively affluent people being blamed for driving up the stock market. And … yet … as I mentioned earlier in this thread … those investment dollars aren’t in mason jars in the yard, in mattresses, or in piggy banks. They’re in the pipeline and are somewhat traceable. As is money put in banks and other savings vehicles. Meaning … that money is being spent. In the process, it creates upward pricing pressure. But we aren’t blaming the wealthy for their … I also think it isn’t too far afield to talk about tax policy (as Hanuer does) that contributes to this clusterfuckery: > [@Do the rich pay their fair share?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-rich-pay-their-fair-share/921817): > > I did a quick search and found very little specifically about this. In association with the latest story about DJT’s tax returns, I heard a statistic that the wealthiest Americans pay an average of 24% in Federal Income Tax. I presume they’re talking about [Effective Tax Rate](https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/taxes/what-is-the-effective-tax-rate-15102865). But Effective Tax Rate reminds me of an old joke in medicine: The surgery was a complete success, but the patient died. Sometimes, our definitions differ from the definitions used by others. According to [Pew Research](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/10/06/a-closer-look-at-who-does-and-doesnt-pay-u-s-income-tax/): … I try to avoid hyperbole, but I don’t _think_ it’s _insanely_ hyperbolic to say that we haven’t gone so awfully far from the plantation mentality in this country. One of the primary arguments that the South asserted in the runup to the Civil War _was that_ ending the Peculiar Institution would be devastating to their economy. Which evokes the mellifluous, dulcet tones of the world’s smallest violin. Can you hear it ? I can. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2021, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/67 "2021-02-28T22:58:14Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > There seems to be an all or nothing attitude on this thread, forgetting that the OP doesn’t ask if the minimum wage should be raised, but if it should be raised to a specific amount, a ludicrous amount more than double the current rate, in a very short period of time. It appears that you are unaware that many states and localities already have MW much higher than the federal level. My area is at or close to $15 already. States that have been screwing their workers for years will see bigger increases. This should reduce poverty there and reduce the amount of money they are sucking in from the federal government. BTW if the waiters at your son’s restaurant are making $80 an hour on tips averaged over an entire shift, your son can probably afford to pay them a bit more in their base. If they make $80 for one hour and little or nothing other hours, I don’t see what your point is. Finally most of the money MW employees spend are on things that are not labor intensive, like rent and supermarkets, and so their costs will go up much less than the MW. People making a lot more money will probably pay a bit more, we can afford it. So the MW increase reduces income inequality, which is a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2021, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/68 "2021-02-28T23:06:33Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > One issue with a high minimum wage today is that the ability for retail to use automation is more viable than ever. A business can enable touch-screen ordering systems, self-scan checkouts, robotic stocking systems, robotic burger flippers, etc. In the past it wasn’t really possible to automate the many tasks performed by an employee, but that’s not the case anymore. Now it’s often a financial decision of whether to fill a role with an employee or a machine. If employees start to cost more, then automation becomes a more financially viable solution. Looking to the past to see how employment changed when minimum wage was raised may not be applicable today. Rather than the cashiers now making $15, what instead might happen is that the cashiers are laid off and replaced by a touch screen ordering system. Doing this will increase the productivity of the economy, and workers whose jobs can easily be automated might have to find jobs - like in health care or child care - which can’t be. Besides automation, people paid better are likely to be more productive than people underpaid - compare your average WalMart worker with a Costco worker. That improves customer experience also. I’ve mentioned before that a major electronics manufacturer didn’t automate their SE Asian plants because workers were cheaper than machines. We don’t want to go there, I think. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2021, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/69 "2021-02-28T23:08:42Z")
New Jersey is up to $10.00 and it is still too low. I say this as someone that hasn’t had to worry about Minimum Wage since I was 18 years old. That is way too long ago now. ETA: In 2021 it is apparently going up to $12. It will reach $15 in 2024. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2021, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/70 "2021-02-28T23:10:15Z")
How does MW reduce inequality? If MW and inequality have both been increasing over time, and we have never really had deflation, there seems to be a correlation between MW and inequality. Without an increase in goods and services proportional to the increase in money you’d think that wage floors would have an intrinsic inflationary pressure. Why wouldn’t rents go up in an area where the average labor rate goes up? ---
**Author:** ![BrickBat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@BrickBat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrickBat)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2021, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/71 "2021-02-28T23:20:34Z")
Interesting links DNR. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2021, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/72 "2021-02-28T23:21:00Z")
The purchasing power of the federal MW has been decreasing with time. The decrease in inequality seems obvious - money from the relatively better off will flow to the relatively worse off. It’s hardly the solution, since it will affect the truly rich a negligible amount. The only reason I could see for rents going up would be if more MW workers could afford housing and thus increase demand. That would be a good thing - less homelessness. I doubt if the skilled workers working on rental properties are at MW. A quick Google shows that chain groceries labor costs are about 9%. Some part of this is above MW already. So prices will go up much less than the MW goes up. And if a MW wage increase encourages automation,such as more self-check lines or more scanning products as you put them in the cart, productivity increases which is also good. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/73 "2021-03-01T07:58:37Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > BTW if the waiters at your son’s restaurant are making $80 an hour on tips averaged over an entire shift, your son can probably afford to pay them a bit more in their base. If they make $80 for one hour and little or nothing other hours, I don’t see what your point is. YTH should he? It’s a higher end establishment in a resort/lake community. His waitstaff typically work 4-6 hour shifts 2-3 nights a week. Yes things slowed a bit for them during Covid. But on average they pull $80 an hour on tips every hour worked. Why should he supplement that more than the $2.33 an hour he’s required to? His Friday-Saturday night rotation make up to $1000 each, and even more during the summer tourist season. Not bad for 12 hours work spread over 2 nights. He also has non-tipped employees he has to pay a straight wage to, overhead and margins, plus, if you don’t mind, he’d like to make some money himself thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/74 "2021-03-01T08:16:09Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > {…} He also has non-tipped employees he has to pay a straight wage to, overhead and margins, plus, if you don’t mind, he’d like to make some money himself thank you very much. I’m betting, him waiting on tables for tips is out of the question, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/75 "2021-03-01T08:42:46Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I’m betting, him waiting on tables for tips is out of the question, isn’t it? Yeah, because that’s what you expected the owner and Chef to do at a higher end resort. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/76 "2021-03-01T08:45:12Z")
Maybe he should have learned to dig ditches instead of flipping burgers? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/77 "2021-03-01T08:51:12Z")
I’m not gonna quote anyone. But capital Fuck those business owners that think tipped employees shouldn’t get, at least, minimum wage. You pay them to to be there and represent your business. They are the FRONT FUCKING LINE of your marketing efforts. The money that they MAKE is is independent of what you PAY them. ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/78 "2021-03-01T09:51:12Z")
In 2018 I went from $12.61 an hour to $15 (I’m now at $16.) as they realized I was underpaid for my position and experience. You know what that meant? Being able to regularly get my oil changed. Getting my car **fixed!** Buying more healthy food. Buying better clothes. Not having to starve for 3 months so I could buy new New Balance shoes for work. Next up is new glasses. Getting dentures. “Don’t raise minimum!” Is the battle cry of people who have never ever tried to live on it in the modern era. I suspect a good chunk hate poor people and think they should just die at 50 so they don’t take up more resources. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/79 "2021-03-01T10:10:33Z")
> [@kitap](#): > > In 2018 I went from $12.61 an hour to $15 (I’m now at $16.) as they realized I was underpaid for my position and experience. So they gave you a raise because you were worth it and not because they were forced to? What happened to you is how it’s supposed to happen. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Maybe he should have learned to dig ditches instead of flipping burgers? I don’t get it ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945/80 "2021-03-01T11:53:31Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > > [@kitap](#): > > > > In 2018 I went from $12.61 an hour to $15 (I’m now at $16.) as they realized I was underpaid for my position and experience. > > So they gave you a raise because you were worth it and not because they were forced to? What happened to you is how it’s supposed to happen. Apparently you missed the part where I explained that $12.61 is not a liveable wage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-increased-to-15/933945.md?page=5)