# Should the minimum wage be lowered to $6 per hour? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 26, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463 "2013-02-26T20:35:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/41 "2013-02-27T00:56:29Z")
Dude, it’s Rand Rover. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/42 "2013-02-27T00:57:30Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Common decency demands that we eliminate the minimum wage entirely. That’s the kind of “common decency” that ends with those who practice it dying at the hands of a impoverished mob with a guillotine. Marie Antoinette would be proud. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/43 "2013-02-27T01:20:03Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Common decency demands that we eliminate the minimum wage entirely. Traditionally in a debate one makes propositions and defends them with logical arguments. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/44 "2013-02-27T01:20:49Z")
Sorry guys, I don’t have the time to thoughtfully respond to your responses right now, and probably won’t for a while. Just saying, I haven’t forgotten about this thread and I am still reading responses. I will respond to you when I get a good chance to do so. Thank you for your input. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/45 "2013-02-27T01:21:32Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > Traditionally in a debate one makes propositions and defends them with logical arguments. Or you could notice that it’s Rand Rover… ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/46 "2013-02-27T02:00:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As I’ve said in many threads about the MW: If we, as a society, want to provide a social safety net to people, should not we, as a society through our taxes, provide that safety net? Why is it that employers and only employers must provide that safety net? We do both. And some of the safety net spending is simply captured by employers. A minimum wage prevents them from capturing more. [It’s estimated](http://www.nextnewdeal.net/rortybomb/interview-dube-eitc-and-minimum-wage-complements) that only 73¢ of each dollar of EITC spending actually ends up in the pockets of the people on EITC. Get rid of the minimum wage, and companies will just have their employees working on the government’s dime, rather than their own. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/47 "2013-02-27T02:02:32Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Because people like WillFarnaby have zero clue about the economic reality of low wages and how people live. They only have their own context to go by and their own experience, without the benefit of really thinking about it, learning about it and the simple act of Empathy. > > No one with half an ounce of common sense who has spent more than a fraction of a second either living on these wages, knowing someone they love on these wages or having really thought about what it means to try to make ends meet on these wages and/or what it means to our economy seriously thinks that ‘no minimum wage’ is a good idea. Firstly, you don’t have the slightest clue about my personal experiences. Lets just say you have nothing but demagoguery left in the tank and even that is only fumes. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/48 "2013-02-27T02:05:31Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > Traditionally in a debate one makes propositions and defends them with logical arguments. No, you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/49 "2013-02-27T02:24:16Z")
One reason why you shouldn’t lower the minimum wage is that property taxes are inelastic. Hear me out. Rent is the highest expense for minimum wage earners, and property taxes are a large portion of rent already. If minimum wage goes down, there will be a whole slew of people who suddenly can’t afford their current rent (consisting of some couples working 40 hour minimum wage jobs, plus some single-income households whose wages are pushed down by the opening of some sunlight between them and the new minimum wage.) One of two things can then happen. Property owners could be psychologically inelastic and not reduce their rents appropriately even if the market forces would seem to warrant it, which would be utterly horrible for those already on the margins of making a living wage. Or, they may reduce their rents, but their profit margins will be slashed to the bone because do you really think that local property taxes will go down to reflect the lower rents that cheap housing now commands? Come to think of it, this very well may ripple through the economy and cause a deflationary cycle, now that the bottom 20% or so of wage earners will have much less disposable income, and local and national authorities would have less tax income due to falling property and income taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/50 "2013-02-27T02:46:09Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s the kind of “common decency” that ends with those who practice it dying at the hands of a impoverished mob with a guillotine. Marie Antoinette would be proud. Nope. Your policy positions lead to impoverished mobs–they are in fact specifically designed to create an environment that hinders achievement and advancement. My policy positions lead to a flourishing, rich society. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/51 "2013-02-27T02:48:29Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > Traditionally in a debate one makes propositions and defends them with logical arguments. No kidding. Maybe that’s why I’m constantly begging people to make a claim and make an argument in support of that claim, but they hardly ever do. Other people just assert assert assert and use nonsense words like “common decency” when they just want to express their own preferences, so sometimes I feel like doing the same. No one ever really seems to get how stupid it is, though. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/52 "2013-02-27T02:55:39Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Nope. Your policy positions lead to impoverished mobs–they are in fact specifically designed to create an environment that hinders achievement and advancement. My policy positions lead to a flourishing, rich society. No they don’t, they lead to neofeudalism, a society of lords and serfs. Until the serfs rebel at least. And your description of my position is a total non sequitur. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/53 "2013-02-27T03:12:47Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Nope. Your policy positions lead to impoverished mobs–they are in fact specifically designed to create an environment that hinders achievement and advancement. My policy positions lead to a flourishing, rich society. Please provide actual cites to support your position or else admit it’s nothing more than your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/54 "2013-02-27T03:42:57Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Please provide actual cites to support your position or else admit it’s nothing more than your opinion. I’m curious–why didn’t you ask Der Trihs to provide cites? My bare assertions are so obviously just my opinion that saying so is really unnecessary. I am perfectly happy to just have an opinion–I don’t feel the need to dress up my opinion and claim it is objective truth like so many people here do. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/55 "2013-02-27T03:45:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No they don’t, they lead to neofeudalism, a society of lords and serfs. Until the serfs rebel at least. And your description of my position is a total non sequitur. No they don’t. My policy positions allow the free flow of goods and resources. If anyone is a lord, it’s a person who’s smart enough to make use of resources in a way to benefit people. If anyone is a serf, it’s a person who realizes they can’t be a lord and so chooses to be a serf. Your policy positions allocate resources according to the whim of a ruling political elite. There are your entrenched lords, with all of us as serfs. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/56 "2013-02-27T04:06:40Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Nope. Your policy positions lead to impoverished mobs–they are in fact specifically designed to create an environment that hinders achievement and advancement. My policy positions lead to a flourishing, rich society. Could you name one? I mean, please list the flourishing, rich societies without a minimum wage. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/57 "2013-02-27T04:14:18Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Could you name one? I mean, please list the flourishing, rich societies without a minimum wage. Good luck. Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/58 "2013-02-27T04:20:49Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Nope. Your policy positions lead to impoverished mobs–they are in fact specifically designed to create an environment that hinders achievement and advancement. My policy positions lead to a flourishing, rich society. Read all about that in a book somewhere, didja? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/59 "2013-02-27T04:23:15Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > If $9/hour is good, why stop there? Wouldn’t $20/hour be so much better? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463/60 "2013-02-27T04:28:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Germany. I would have thought you’d pick Ethiopia. I guess you may technically win with Germany, though they do have minimum wages for certain industries and in most other industries they have very strong labor unions that require fairly high starting wages, which are different from minimum wages only in name. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-minimum-wage-be-lowered-to-6-per-hour/651463.md?page=4)