# Should the New Zealand Live Stream of Massacre be Censored? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 15, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193 "2019-03-15T20:27:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/41 "2019-03-16T17:42:50Z")
šŸ˜• NM ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/42 "2019-03-16T19:26:41Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > So what do you think? Would it be better or worse if the public was allowed to view such videos? I donā€™t normally support censorship, but in this case I do, for the following reasons: 1. A lot of people would be traumatized by viewing such a video, even if you, personally, are not. Given how many sites have ā€œautoplayā€ these days there is no practical way to avoid seeing such a video once ā€œpublishedā€ short of removing oneself from the Internet and thatā€™s not fair. (Yes, itā€™s been published, but since sites are taking it down as fast as they can the accidental viewing problem isnā€™t as bad as it would otherwise be). 2. The copycat factor you mention 3. Actual video tape of people actually being murdered is not something the public _needs_ to see, any more than the general public needs to see every autopsy and piece of evidence in every other crime. This is the sort of evidence that should be accessible to those with a need to know but is no one elseā€™s business. Sort of like medical records. 4. Because the piece of slime who filmed it wanted it distributed to rile people up thatā€™s a good reason to NOT broadcast it, to thwart the goals and aims of terrorist slime. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/43 "2019-03-16T22:39:32Z")
Yes; and Iā€™ve said the same thing most times variations on the theme have come up since Budd Dryer. At least IMHO people need to see the reality of violence on this level.I honestly feel that it could get us up off our chairs, away from our keyboards, and doing something to stop the madness above talking it over. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/44 "2019-03-17T05:06:20Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > At least IMHO people need to see the reality of violence on this level. I think thereā€™s one important point that everyone is missing. Iā€™ve watched the video, and the most striking thing for me was how _bland_ it seemed. Any first-person shooter video game - and there are hundreds of them - theyā€™ve been highly popular for decades - is _far_ more gory, and has _far_ more graphic violence. Iā€™ll tell you exactly what every video gamer, and probably every right-wing fanatic, is thinking (maybe secretly) while watching that video: ā€œBorā€¦ringā€. 90% of all normal teenage kids have seen far worse violence than that in games. Watch any videos of walkthroughs of Call of Duty, or even of 20 year old games like Quake and Half Life, and compare. There are any number of videos on YouTube - just google. In fact, that may be the only value of showing the video - to show people who are caught up in the ā€˜glamour and gloryā€™ of violence how little the real world actually corresponds with that. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/45 "2019-03-17T06:04:15Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > Yes; and Iā€™ve said the same thing most times variations on the theme have come up since Budd Dryer. At least IMHO people need to see the reality of violence on this level.I honestly feel that it could get us up off our chairs, away from our keyboards, and doing something to stop the madness above talking it over. There is a big problem with male teenagers driving recklessly and drunk. So you feel it would be appropriate for the dead battered body of your relativeā€™s son (who died in a car accident from reckless/drunk driving) to be widely shared on social media to discourage other teenagers from engaging in this behavior? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/46 "2019-03-17T06:23:15Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Do I think itā€™s appropriate for private providers to ban it? Absolutely. People will jerk off to it, for Godā€™s sake. This. Itā€™s basically a real-time snuff film. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/47 "2019-03-17T12:26:57Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > There is a big problem with male teenagers driving recklessly and drunk. So you feel it would be appropriate for the dead battered body of your relativeā€™s son (who died in a car accident from reckless/drunk driving) to be widely shared on social media to discourage other teenagers from engaging in this behavior? If my son died of reckless driving, and i thought that pictures of his shattered body might discourage another boy from reckless driving, damn right Iā€™d want it in social media. Iā€™d be desperate to extract any tiny element of good I could from the tragedy. I donā€™t think that works, though. I donā€™t think people identify with shattered bodies, and think, ā€œthat could be meā€. I saw ā€œdeath on the highwayā€ in drivers Ed, and we took it as a joke. The stats about differential impairment of adults and teens were much more persuasive. (People with 30 years of driving experience are less impaired at the same level of blood alcohol than new drivers.) In this situation, I think the killer wanted publicity, and wanted to glamorize what he did. If you want to understand the horror of his actions, you would do better to read obituaries of the victims than to look at their remains, let alone watch their murder. People identify with live people who do things and have social connections and hopes and dreams. They donā€™t identify with bodies. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/48 "2019-03-17T12:53:52Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > An event which put him personally in danger of dying changed his mind. That isnā€™t to say that watching a similar event from the safety of his computer screen would have changed his mind. Also, that was an event which directly contradicted his belief that ā€œa good guy with a gunā€ could have helped. I donā€™t see any comparable lesson in this one. > [@Quartz](#): > > Both the video and the manifesto are being censored. But if we donā€™t have access to something, how can we argue against it? These days, you canā€™t just say, ā€œTrust us.ā€ There are too many examples of that trust being abused; not to mention becoming fodder for conspiracies. Contrariwise the Unabomber was caught when his manifesto was published. > > In Denmark, CNN reports that [people are being prosecuted](https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/07/europe/denmark-morocco-murder-scli-intl/index.html) for sharing another video. I certainly donā€™t want it locked away by the government. Iā€™m glad that reporters have access to it. And Iā€™m okay if regular people like GreenWyvern can find it if they look hard enough. But i certainly do want Facebook, etc., to take it down so no one sees it inadvertantly. > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > I think thereā€™s one important point that everyone is missing. Iā€™ve watched the video, and the most striking thing for me was how _bland_ it seemed. Any first-person shooter video game - and there are hundreds of them - theyā€™ve been highly popular for decades - is _far_ more gory, and has _far_ more graphic violence. > > Iā€™ll tell you exactly what every video gamer, and probably every right-wing fanatic, is thinking (maybe secretly) while watching that video: ā€œBorā€¦ringā€. > > 90% of all normal teenage kids have seen far worse violence than that in games. Watch any videos of walkthroughs of Call of Duty, or even of 20 year old games like Quake and Half Life, and compare. There are any number of videos on YouTube - just google. > > In fact, that may be the only value of showing the video - to show people who are caught up in the ā€˜glamour and gloryā€™ of violence how little the real world actually corresponds with that. Thatā€™s interesting. I know two people on another message board who saw it by mistake, and they are both pretty upset about that. One sounds kind of traumatized. I bet theyā€™ve both played violent video games. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/49 "2019-03-17T14:56:46Z")
I donā€™t want to view it, but realistically you canā€™t put the toothpaste back into the tube. I know people who download stuff like this the instant it appears. Once itā€™s out, itā€™s out. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/50 "2019-03-17T16:24:03Z")
Iā€™ve seen the video and at least to me there is no emotional resonance, you just feel so detached from what youā€™re watching, and the GoPro or whatever gives it a video game feel. Watching it is also a sort of real life example of the banality of evil. I will say this watching it unfold, imagining if I was there I clearly see the best option is find the nearest exit, window whatever or make an exit and just run and donā€™t stop till you canā€™t run any longer. Playing dead is not an option, he returns numerous times to shoot the pile of bodies in their heads and such, I would previously thought that might be a good idea, but not after seeing the video. If you had no other way of escape and you had to engage the shooter you better hope heā€™s reloading, otherwise you probably donā€™t have much chance. This was so well planned and prepared thereā€™s about zero the people could have done to fight back. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/51 "2019-03-17T16:57:38Z")
The NZ authorities seem to have made up their mind about whether the video should be censored or not: > [@](#): > > We would also like to remind the public that it is an offence to distribute an objectionable publication and that is punishable by imprisonment. source: [NZ Police Twitter account](https://twitter.com/nzpolice/status/1106636796941623296) less than 12 hours later that same account tweeted out this: > [@](#): > > Police would like to hear from anybody who may have seen, heard or have any information on the Christchurch attacks of 15 March. > > People with information that can help the investigation can now use a dedicated form on the NZ Police website. > [@](#): > > This form can be used to submit information, photos and/or documents. You can also use the form to tell us if you have video footage, which can be submitted separately. [Thatā€™s bait](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZUoCpx8jag), apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/52 "2019-03-17T23:48:16Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > This. Itā€™s basically a real-time snuff film. Literally 10 minutes ago a GoPro video of a cartel hit was on my Facebook feed. Pulled up to a garage with automatic weapons and killed everyone. Not only was it on Facebook but it had that two click thing that they put on violent videos so it wasnā€™t snuck on there. And thatā€™s Facebook. Do you realize how easy it is to see videos like that? The only way to stop it is to somehow shut down the Internet. What makes this video so much worse than hundreds I could link to if I chose? Should those be made illegal to watch? ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/53 "2019-03-18T00:00:03Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > There is a big problem with male teenagers driving recklessly and drunk. So you feel it would be appropriate for the dead battered body of your relativeā€™s son (who died in a car accident from reckless/drunk driving) to be widely shared on social media to discourage other teenagers from engaging in this behavior? Since you ask: yes. And we actually tried to have it done - a group effort on behalf of an aunt when her son (my cousin) died as a result of a drunk driving incident. Feel free to disagree with me but Iā€™m at least consistent throughout my life. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/54 "2019-03-18T01:14:24Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > Yes; and Iā€™ve said the same thing most times variations on the theme have come up since Budd Dryer. At least IMHO people need to see the reality of violence on this level.I honestly feel that it could get us up off our chairs, away from our keyboards, and doing something to stop the madness above talking it over. I think I agree with you (I think). How much of an impact would 911\* have had if no one saw the horrifying images of planes flying into buildings, people jumping, buildings collapsing, and then the faces and life stories of all those who perished. For me personally, I donā€™t think it would have had the same impact if I had only read about it. And again I hate to use the animal cruelty analogy, but the reason those Humane Society & SPCA commercials are effective (cue Sarah McLaughlin music) is because itā€™s one thing to hear about animal abuseā€¦but itā€™s something else entirely to actually see it. Same thing with factory farms. Laws did not change until people saw what was really going on with their own eyes. Iā€™m sure there is a very small segment of society who ā€œjerks offā€ to people being murdered or animals being abused and killed, but I should think (wishful thinking?) that the overwhelming majority of society would have the opposite reaction. \ ***Loach** , my sincerest condolences that you lost a loved one on 911. I hope you have found peace. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/55 "2019-03-18T02:19:38Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Let me just ask one thing. If it was members of your own family who were killed in that video, would you want the video to be public? Absofuckinglutely. Now, I realize many may not, but I absolutely would, and if I ever go out in that manner, I want the world to see what kind of evil weā€™re up against. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/56 "2019-03-18T02:59:56Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > What makes this video so much worse than hundreds I could link to if I chose? The hate crime. > [@](#): > > Should those be made illegal to watch? Hell no. Go after the distribution. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/57 "2019-03-18T20:23:44Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > The hate crime.Hell no. Go after the distribution. Just this hate crime? Because I could find you dozens. And itā€™s not like I have to go dark web, I can go on main stream sites and find it for you. And how are you going to go after the distributors? In every country thatā€™s hooked up to the Internet? What is the crime? Bad taste? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/58 "2019-03-18T20:27:51Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > We really do need to break up companies like Google, FaceBook, YouTube, whateverā€¦ Because people wonā€™t stop using them when thereā€™s no palatable alternative and those companies donā€™t feel any pain as a result of being a tool for terrorists. Is there some reason why you donā€™t think Twitter, Twitch, Instagram, Veoh and so forth are ā€œpalatable alternativesā€? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/59 "2019-03-18T20:29:31Z")
I have already seen people talking about how this was a hoax. I guess thatā€™s inevitable. All the crazy seem to think the same way about everything. But thatā€™s after they saw the video. It didnā€™t look ā€œrealā€ to them. All from people who have never heard a shot fired in anger or seen a dead body. Now itā€™s just fringe people who canā€™t believe their own eyes. What if itā€™s actively being suppressed by governments around the world? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/60 "2019-03-18T20:58:06Z")
Prior to this, I didnā€™t realize New Zealand was such a tyrannical shithole: [New Zealand man, 22, arrested for allegedly distributing video of mosque shootings](https://abcnews.go.com/ABCNews/zealand-man-22-arrested-allegedly-distributing-video-mosque/story?id=61742270) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193.md?page=4)