# Should the New Zealand Live Stream of Massacre be Censored? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 15, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193 "2019-03-15T20:27:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/81 "2019-03-19T00:00:05Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > … Do you also like Brenton Tarrant’s style? Serious question. No. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/82 "2019-03-19T00:05:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > As a response to would-be tinpot tyrants, yes. So you think the New Zealand police are acting as tinpot tyrants for requesting Tarrant’s data? This was the email to which Moon responded in the style you so much admire: > [@](#): > > I am hoping that you can help us with an investigation the New Zealand Police are working on. > > On 15 March 2019 there was a shooting in New Zealand with multiple fatalities at two mosques in the city of Christchurch. The alleged offender in this matter is a Brenton TARRANT. > > At around the time of the shooting there were a number of posts and links posted on [kiwifarms.net](http://kiwifarms.net) relating to the shooting and TARRANT. > > We would like to preserve any posts and technical data including IP addresses, email addresses etc linked to these posts pending a formal legal request. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/83 "2019-03-19T00:23:13Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > My understanding of [snuff films](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/snuff-film) is that it is a pornographic movie culminating in the murder of one of the performers. Using your definition, would the collapse of the World Trade Centers constitute a snuff film? Perhaps snuff film isn’t the right term, and with the usual IANAL type caveats… I believe in the US material must be sexual in nature to be classified objectionable… and I am in no way am arguing or suggesting that this film should be banned in the US. In NZ there are other categories under which material _can_ be classified as objectionable by being “injurious to the public good”. Material has to be pretty extreme to get classified this way. One of those categories covers a depiction of “the infliction of serious physical harm or acts of significant cruelty”. Another category covers a depiction “promotes or encourages criminal acts or acts of terrorism”. To your question, the WTC footage was not perhaps considered as immediately graphic… I don’t know. I certainly found it disturbing at the time but I don’t recall any attempt or intent to censor it. Personally I’m not a fan of this heavy handed approach… but please understand things are feeling more than a bit raw here atm. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/84 "2019-03-19T00:23:37Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > So you think the New Zealand police are acting as tinpot tyrants for requesting Tarrant’s data? It wasn’t Tarrant’s data. It was data on KiwiFarms users. > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > This was the email to which Moon responded in the style you so much admire: Not sure where you got that from. The post I found about it said it was this: > [@](#): > > Good afternoon > > I am hoping that you can help us with an investigation the New Zealand Police are working on. > > On 15 March 2019 there was a shooting in New Zealand with multiple fatalities at two mosques in the city of Christchurch. > > The alleged offender in this matter is a Brenton TARRANT. > > At around the time of the shooting there were a number of posts and links posted on [kiwifarms.net](http://kiwifarms.net) relating to the shooting and TARRANT > > We would like to preserve any posts and technical data including IP addresses, email addresses etc linked to these posts pending a formal legal request . > > Could you please advise what legal process you require for this request and also confirm preservation of the data requested pending legal process. > > Kind regards > > John > > John Michael\_ > \_Detective Senior Sergeant\* > \*E-mail: john.michael@police.govt.nz > > =============================================================== > > WARNING > > The information contained in this email message is intended for the addressee only and may contain privileged information. It may also be subject to the provisions of section 50 of the Policing Act 2008, which creates an offence to have unlawful possession of Police property. If you are not the intended recipient of this message or have received this message in error, you must not peruse, use, distribute or copy this message or any of its contents. > > Also note, the views expressed in this message may not necessarily reflect those of the New Zealand Police. If you have received this message in error, please email or telephone the sender immediately Your version leaves off the latter portion (including the most pathetic paragraphs in the whole thing), but anyways, what’s your point? That they were polite in their request for help tracking down the dissidents? That doesn’t really make it okay in my eyes. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/85 "2019-03-19T00:27:06Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > … Personally I’m not a fan of this heavy handed approach… I’m delighted to hear this. Please share your feelings with your government (if you don’t think it will get you in trouble). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/86 "2019-03-19T00:34:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It wasn’t Tarrant’s data. It was data on KiwiFarms users. > > Not sure where you got that from. The post I found about it said it was this: > > Your version leaves off the latter portion (including the most pathetic paragraphs in the whole thing), but anyways, what’s your point? That they were polite in their request for help tracking down the dissidents? That doesn’t really make it okay in my eyes. I am strongly against the government censorship but I really think you’re reading this wrong. For one I don’t know what you think is the most pathetic part, that I don’t understand. The standard legal disclaimer at the end? Whatever. If they were looking for “dissidents” they would be attempting to find information From the time after the video was deemed illegal. From what I read the video didn’t automatically become illegal it had to be named that by some sort of government panel. This is a letter of preservation asking to preserve the data at the time when the shooting happened. Most likely they have information that he is streamed through their service during the shooting and they are looking for information about others who may have been involved. Not “dissidents.” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/87 "2019-03-19T00:42:48Z")
Moon seems to be lower than pond scum but he is right that it is ridiculous to think the video can be purged off of the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/88 "2019-03-19T00:45:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I am, however, rather interested in New Zealand’s decision to start charging its own citizens for posting / possessing this video, which you called a “snuff film”. Do you feel that definition would apply to any videos wherein someone dies? Snuff film isn’t perhaps completely apt… but isn’t perhaps also completely wrong when taken as a film that records a murder committed for the film. If Adam shoots Bob and bystander Charlie films it, then that wouldn’t fit the definition. If instead Charlie is an accomplice and cameraman… that would fit I think. This film doesn’t capture the murders by happenstance, though I don’t expect the asshole’s primary motive was movie making. The one guy who has been arrested re. the film is charged with distribution of objectionable material… my point about CP is that I suspect you think the video \*shouldn’t \* be so classified. I’m a bit of two minds about it, but having been classified as such, distribution isn’t legal. It will be interesting to see where this arrest goes… there’s a danger here I think in well intentioned but ultimately regrettable overreach. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/89 "2019-03-19T00:55:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m delighted to hear this. Please share your feelings with your government (if you don’t think it will get you in trouble). I would have to get pretty extreme to get in trouble. (I realize you think this is a tyrannical shithole, and it’s not uncommon for those from the home of the brave to think they’re the only free country. We tend to just smile and nod and try not to hurt their feelings of exceptionalism.) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/90 "2019-03-19T00:58:17Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I am strongly against the government censorship but I really think you’re reading this wrong. … Perhaps you’re right. It seems to me that they’re looking for [more people they can charge with distributing contraband](https://www.msn.com/en-xl/australasia/australasia-top-stories/christchurch-teenager-charged-with-distributing-mosque-rampage-livestream/ar-BBUTSNQ?li=BBJGzsi/), but I’m certainly open to the possibility that I’m mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/91 "2019-03-19T01:02:26Z")
Did we already cover the question of why wasn’t there this sort of hand-wringing with, e.g., ISIS’s 1080p snuff videos making the rounds? Is it that the shooter is a Caucasian? The shooter is a vile piece of shit. The video is far less graphic than others of its nature and, like the footage of The Station nightclub fire during the Great White concert, there is an educational value to the footage. Mainly, as in that case, how little time one has to react when one is in a similar situation. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/92 "2019-03-19T01:09:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Perhaps you’re right. It seems to me that they’re looking for [more people they can charge with distributing contraband](https://www.msn.com/en-xl/australasia/australasia-top-stories/christchurch-teenager-charged-with-distributing-mosque-rampage-livestream/ar-BBUTSNQ?li=BBJGzsi/), but I’m certainly open to the possibility that I’m mistaken. So maybe they _aren’t_ autistic faggots? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/93 "2019-03-19T01:19:10Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > …To your question, the WTC footage was not perhaps considered as immediately graphic… I don’t know. I certainly found it disturbing at the time but I don’t recall any attempt or intent to censor it. > > Personally I’m not a fan of this heavy handed approach… but please understand things are feeling more than a bit raw here atm. ☹ Some of it was. There are photos floating around, and definitely not publicized, of what the plaza in front of the WTC looked like pre collapse. Red splashes, that used to be people, everywhere. I don’t know why those photos weren’t publicized, and I don’t support the decision to obfuscate them. I am very sorry that you Kiwis are going through this horrible tragedy. From what I have read of the mad man’s writings, New Zealand was picked for this, precisely because it was peaceful , and at harmony. People like him, can’t stand seeing anyone being happy, at ease with their neighbors. It brings their whole worldview into question. Rather than examine it, the madman would prefer that you were as miserable and sadistic as he is. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/94 "2019-03-19T03:07:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Perhaps you’re right. It seems to me that they’re looking for [more people they can charge with distributing contraband](https://www.msn.com/en-xl/australasia/australasia-top-stories/christchurch-teenager-charged-with-distributing-mosque-rampage-livestream/ar-BBUTSNQ?li=BBJGzsi/), but I’m certainly open to the possibility that I’m mistaken. They are not mutually exclusive. They very well may want to prosecute more for distribution of the videos. But that does not appear to be what they’re looking for with Kiwifarms. It appears to be a standard letter of preservation. When doing investigations involving electronic data is standard procedure to send a letter of preservation before the search warrant can be granted. Many companies do not preserve their data as long as people think they do. The letter sent to Kiwifarms has a specific time frame from around the time of the shooting itself. So this asshole Internet troll is taking pride in standing in the way of the investigation of the shooting itself. It is very possible to think that Moon Is a filthy excuse for a human and still think that it is disgusting that they are prosecuting an 18-year-old for posting a picture with the possibility of 14 years in prison. I don’t know if I was you I would back away from my support of someone who is probably a cheerleader for the terrorist. He is not a hero in this. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/95 "2019-03-19T04:14:17Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Some of it was. There are photos floating around, and definitely not publicized, of what the plaza in front of the WTC looked like pre collapse. Red splashes, that used to be people, everywhere. Holy crap. I didn’t know that, tough I guess it stands to reason. Fuck that was a horrible day - just thinking about it now is bringing back memories, and I was half a world away. How anyone actully involved coped I have no idea. That day I just somehow wanted to hug the US. ☹ > [@](#): > > I am very sorry that you Kiwis are going through this horrible tragedy. From what I have read of the mad man’s writings, New Zealand was picked for this, precisely because it was peaceful , and at harmony. People like him, can’t stand seeing anyone being happy, at ease with their neighbors. It brings their whole worldview into question. Rather than examine it, the madman would prefer that you were as miserable and sadistic as he is. Thank you **Gray Ghost**. I’d never go as far as saying “harmony”; you should see us at Waitangi Day - there’s still a lot of old colonial shit to finish working out and making good on - and I have no illusions that there are plenty of rocks you could lift here and find racists and bigots. :o I work in IT. Many of my co-workers are fairly recent immigrants to NZ, and they come from all over the world. When I look at the images of those who were killed I can’t help but see people just like the ones I work with everyday. And it hurts. I don’t want to give this asshole a platform, and don’t want to give his twisted message oxygen, but at the same time I don’t believe that hiding and suppressing the information that’s already out there in the world will necessarily improve matters. IMHO his manifesto needs to dragged into sunlight, dissected and analyzed, its lies and untruths revealed for what they are. In any event I won’t be watching the video regardless of its legality - I just couldn’t handle that. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/96 "2019-03-19T04:48:50Z")
There seems to be some confusion here. The letter from the New Zealand police to Kiwi Farms has NOTHING to do with the livestreaming video. Tarrant had been making regular posts on the Kiwi Farms forums, and the police want to know who his associates are. Is there a network of other extremists? Are other people involved in this massacre in some way? Who was helping him, encouraging him, supplying him with weapons, ammo, explosives? Are other massacres by similar-minded people being discussed? Etc. In other words it’s part of a normal police investigation. They are tracking down his network of associates and facilitators. It has nothing at all to do with taking down the livestreaming video, or with people watching the video. Is there anything even vaguely referring to taking down a video in that email? Is a video even mentioned in that email? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/97 "2019-03-19T05:26:00Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > They are not mutually exclusive. They very well may want to prosecute more for distribution of the videos. But that does not appear to be what they’re looking for with Kiwifarms. It appears to be a standard letter of preservation. When doing investigations involving electronic data is standard procedure to send a letter of preservation before the search warrant can be granted. Many companies do not preserve their data as long as people think they do. The letter sent to Kiwifarms has a specific time frame from around the time of the shooting itself. So this asshole Internet troll is taking pride in standing in the way of the investigation of the shooting itself. > > It is very possible to think that Moon Is a filthy excuse for a human and still think that it is disgusting that they are prosecuting an 18-year-old for posting a picture with the possibility of 14 years in prison. > > I don’t know if I was you I would back away from my support of someone who is probably a cheerleader for the terrorist. He is not a hero in this. I’ve known of Moon’s existence for like 6 hours now. It’s entirely possible he’s a pedophile, or a cheerleader for the terrorist, or is just some “asshole Internet troll” (although I’d want to see a bit more evidence of any of those things before declaring it so). My alleged “support” for _him_ extends only to his defense of his users’ privacy against the overreach of the NZ authorities. Like you, I generally dislike government censorship, and am heartened when I see people standing up for privacy and freedom. I’m not particularly worried about the effect this may have on the police’s investigation, probably in part because I grew up in a country that has a rather lengthy history of telling investigating authorities to fuck off (starting with the 5th Amendment) and partly because [this isn’t exactly a whodunit with a terrorist running around on the loose. They caught the guy](https://www.wral.com/the-latest-2nd-mosque-shooting-reported-in-new-zealand/18260653/). I am distressed that they’re apparently going to start imprisoning people for sharing / watching the video. That sounds more like the sort of thing I’d expect to hear from North Korea / Turkey / Venezuela. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/98 "2019-03-19T05:28:08Z")
Loach, this may be above a moderator’s paygrade, but do you know how the SDMB would respond if it received a similar letter from New Zealand authorities? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/99 "2019-03-19T07:05:22Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’ve known of Moon’s existence for like 6 hours now. It’s entirely possible he’s a pedophile, or a cheerleader for the terrorist, or is just some “asshole Internet troll” (although I’d want to see a bit more evidence of any of those things before declaring it so). My alleged “support” for _him_ extends only to his defense of his users’ privacy against the overreach of the NZ authorities. Like you, I generally dislike government censorship, and am heartened when I see people standing up for privacy and freedom. > > I’m not particularly worried about the effect this may have on the police’s investigation, probably in part because I grew up in a country that has a rather lengthy history of telling investigating authorities to fuck off (starting with the 5th Amendment) and partly because [this isn’t exactly a whodunit with a terrorist running around on the loose. They caught the guy](https://www.wral.com/the-latest-2nd-mosque-shooting-reported-in-new-zealand/18260653/). > > I am distressed that they’re apparently going to start imprisoning people for sharing / watching the video. That sounds more like the sort of thing I’d expect to hear from North Korea / Turkey / Venezuela. If you want to be on the side with this guy go ahead. It’s not somebody I want to be associated with but knock yourself out. The investigation isn’t over. Sure they have the guy who shot but it’s just simple police work to make sure he wasn’t supported in any material way by someone else. It’s great to pick up Timothy McVeigh but it was important that they got Terry Nichols too. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/100 "2019-03-19T07:23:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Loach, this may be above a moderator’s paygrade, but do you know how the SDMB would respond if it received a similar letter from New Zealand authorities? Anything like that would go straight to the parent company. People actually get paid to handle stuff like that. That letter really isn’t something that matters for here. We don’t delete anything. A letter of preservation is just what it sounds like. It’s a request to preserve. It’s not asking you to turn anything over it’s just requesting that you don’t delete anything until the court paperwork is completed. It’s particularly important with phone companies. Most purge quite a bit of their data after no more than a week. So if you think the cops can look at your text messages from a year ago by getting it from self own company you’re wrong. Some companies require a grand jury subpoena, some require a search warrant. Since it’s a big corporation the parent company here will have their own procedures but like any company will of course comply with legal court orders. When it comes to Issues that cross borders it gets more complicated. I’ve dealt with it going the other way, trying to get information from a Canadian company. Unlike dealing with a company like Verizon that we contact directly, any warrants or court requests are coordinated through the FBI and the Department of State and are processed through Canadian courts. I’m sure it’s similar in the other direction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193.md?page=6)