# Should the New Zealand Live Stream of Massacre be Censored? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 15, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193 "2019-03-15T20:27:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/101 "2019-03-19T07:51:07Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Prior to this, I didn’t realize New Zealand was such a tyrannical shithole: > > [New Zealand man, 22, arrested for allegedly distributing video of mosque shootings](https://abcnews.go.com/ABCNews/zealand-man-22-arrested-allegedly-distributing-video-mosque/story?id=61742270) …tyrannical shithole? All of the funerals for the victims of the shooting have been paid for by the government, all the medical expenses for the injured are covered by our healthcare system, our government is even going to be repatriation costs for any family members who (for any reason) can no longer live in New Zealand. Does that sound like a tyrannical shithole to you? Today in America the Secretary of State (an evangelical Christian who believes in the “Rapture” ) held a conference call that was restricted to “faith-based media”, to discuss his upcoming trip to the [middle east](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mike-pompeo-religious-freedom-faith-based-media_n_5c9020e2e4b071a25a85b87e). We found out today that the [US government uses several clandestine shelters to detain immigrant children.](https://www.revealnews.org/article/us-government-uses-several-clandestine-shelters-to-detain-immigrant-children/) And those are things that we found out about **today**. If you want a list of everything that the United States has done over the last two years that have edged it towards “tyrannical shithole” status I could be here all week. Sex work is legal in NZ. But in the United States we had a case that hit the headlines recently where the police installed secret cameras to record two consenting adults fucking in attempts to prove “trafficking” was happening. And nobody in America even thinks that this is a problem. NOBODY. New Zealand isn’t alone in making it an offence to distribute or possess an objectionable publication. Its only a matter of degree. > [@](#): > > I’ve known of Moon’s existence for like 6 hours now. It’s entirely possible he’s a pedophile, or a cheerleader for the terrorist, or is just some “asshole Internet troll” (although I’d want to see a bit more evidence of any of those things before declaring it so). The evidence is crystal fucking clear. Go visit their website, pick any particular thread, open it up and start reading it. They indulge in open and clear real life stalking, photographs of homes, publishing of addresses: trust me, as someone who has been observing the rise of the alt-right for the last four years k#$#farms is close to the worst of the worst. You do yourself no favours defending him and his ilk. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/102 "2019-03-19T08:16:52Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > … Does that sound like a tyrannical shithole to you? … It sounds like a place that doesn’t value the right to free expression to anywhere near the degree that the USA does. Given [Obama’s attacks on free speech](https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-administration/287426-obamas-legacy-the-trashing-of-free-speech), and President Trump’s attacks on reporters as ‘enemies of the people’, I would hope that it’s readily-apparent to people of all political stripes that giving government the power to declare things “objectionable” on a whim and [imprisoning teenagers for it](http://news.trust.org/item/20190318055420-hji6v) (you do hate imprisoned youth, right?) is fraught with peril. If you want to throw out some what-about-isms about the US, have at it. You’ll not see me claiming we’ve got an unblemished recent history either. We’re just a damn sight better than New Zealand. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > … New Zealand isn’t alone in making it an offence to distribute or possess an objectionable publication. Its only a matter of degree. … Sure. What North Korea does is only a matter of degree too. NZ appears to lie somewhere between the USA and the DPRK. I hope they’ll move more in our direction (and we’ll quit moving in North Korea’s direction). ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/103 "2019-03-19T08:31:47Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > … Tarrant had been making regular posts on the Kiwi Farms forums… What evidence do you have to support this assertion? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/104 "2019-03-19T08:44:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It sounds like a place that doesn’t value the right to free expression to anywhere near the degree that the USA does. …“not valuing the right to free expression to anywhere near the degree that the USA” is not even fucking close to being a tyrannical shithole. That statement was hyperbolic nonsense and you should retract. > [@](#): > > We’re just a damn sight better than New Zealand. ROFL! We don’t have a white-supremacist leader who makes daily attacks on the press. Its not a matter of “whataboutism” and more of a matter that we aren’t even on the same fucking planet. > [@](#): > > Sure. What North Korea does is only a matter of degree too. NZ appears to lie somewhere between the USA and the DPRK. How the hell did you come up with that determination? What the fuck do you know about New Zealand laws? You called us a “tyrannical shithole” based on a couple of sentences from an online article. What a ridiculous way to make an assessment. > [@](#): > > I hope they’ll move more in our direction (and we’ll quit moving in North Korea’s direction). I’m perfectly happy with the direction we are heading thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/105 "2019-03-19T08:57:20Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … declare things “objectionable” on a whim and [imprisoning teenagers for it](http://news.trust.org/item/20190318055420-hji6v) (you do hate imprisoned youth, right?) is fraught with peril. There _seems_ to be something else going on with the two arrests made regarding the video - in at least one case there has been suggestions that the person arrested may have had foreknowledge of the attacks. I’m not sure this is just about the video fwiw. > [@](#): > > NZ appears to lie somewhere between the USA and the DPRK. I hope they’ll move more in our direction (and we’ll quit moving in North Korea’s direction). I’d quote various freedom, corruption, and democracy indices but I suspect it would be in vain - a sort of “no True Scotsman” situation if it’s not the American freedoms of the 1st and 2nd amendments. Let me just say this then: In the wake and mourning of the very worst terrorist attack in our country’s history we’ve banned a video and made a couple of arrests. What did the US do when it suffered its worst attack? Talk to me again about NZ being somewhere between USA and DPRK after we’ve invaded a couple of countries and set up an extra-judicial prison camp. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/106 "2019-03-19T09:10:12Z")
That teenager is not an average guy who just shared the video. He has been charged with publishing extreme hate speech, apart from the video. He has been denied bail because he’s another potential Brenton Tarrant. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/107 "2019-03-19T09:16:38Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > That teenager is not an average guy who just shared the video. > > He has been charged with publishing extreme hate speech, apart from the video. He has been denied bail because he’s another potential Brenton Tarrant. Oh good, you’re back. Do you have any evidence to support this claim yet: > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > … Tarrant had been making regular posts on the Kiwi Farms forums… ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/108 "2019-03-19T09:22:04Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > I’d quote various freedom, corruption, and democracy indices but I suspect it would be in vain - a sort of “no True Scotsman” situation if it’s not the American freedoms of the 1st and 2nd amendments. [https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world-2018-table-country-scores](https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world-2018-table-country-scores) …New Zealand aggregate score 98, the United States aggregate score 86. [https://rsf.org/en/ranking](https://rsf.org/en/ranking) The press freedom index: New Zealand ranked 8th, the United States ranked 45th. > **[human-freedom-index-2018.pdf](https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/human-freedom-index-2018.pdf)** > > 16.62 MB New Zealand ranked number one, the United States ranked 8th. I could keep going but I doubt I’d find much different. It appears by every single objective measure New Zealand is “much more free” than the United States is, and the United States is much closer to “becoming the DPRK” than New Zealand will ever be. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/109 "2019-03-19T09:22:54Z")
Which free speech hating tyrannical shithole makes use of Guantanamo bay again? I can’t recall? ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/110 "2019-03-19T09:25:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s entirely possible he’s a pedophile, or a cheerleader for the terrorist, or is just some “asshole Internet troll” Yes, its possible. They are everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/111 "2019-03-19T09:29:54Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > [https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world-2018-table-country-scores](https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world-2018-table-country-scores) > > …New Zealand aggregate score 98, the United States aggregate score 86. … From [the report](https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2018/new-zealand): > [@](#): > > **D4. Are individuals free to express their personal views on political or other sensitive topics without fear of surveillance or retribution? 4 / 4** > > New Zealanders freely discuss personal views on sensitive topics. However, in March 2017, new intelligence and security legislation was approved by Parliament. The legislation allows law enforcement to access private communications under certain conditions in order to protect national security. Separately, state security officials warned the government in December that Beijing may have attempted to “unduly influence expatriate communities.” You really think they scored that one correctly, given recent events? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/112 "2019-03-19T09:44:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > From [the report](https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2018/new-zealand): > You really think they scored that one correctly, given recent events? …of course they fucking did. Do you not understand what you read? He was arrested for both “Inciting extreme violence” and “distributing prohibited materials.” He is free to express his personal views on political or other sensitive topics but he isn’t free to incite others to hurt or kill others. I certainly trust the people who prepared that report to make sure they “scored it correctly” than a random person on the internet. And even if we chose to ignore this particular report based on your cherry-picking we still have all the others that pretty much say exactly the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/113 "2019-03-19T10:01:52Z")
Oh goodie, the Dikta show again. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/114 "2019-03-19T10:19:34Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I certainly trust the people who prepared that report to make sure they “scored it correctly” than a random person on the internet. And even if we chose to ignore this particular report based on your cherry-picking we still have all the others that pretty much say exactly the same thing. I “cherry-picked” the one bit of the report that seemed relevant to the thread topic: “Should the New Zealand Live Stream of Massacre be Censored”. How NZ treats gays (G3) or whether their last elections were fair (A1-3) doesn’t really seem all that relevant to a discussion about censorship. The other indexes you cited strike me as similarly off-topic: from [https://rsf.org/en/detailed-methodology](https://rsf.org/en/detailed-methodology) > [@](#): > > HOW THE INDEX IS COMPILED > The degree of freedom available to journalists in 180 countries is determined by pooling the responses of experts to a questionnaire devised by RSF. This qualitative analysis is combined with quantitative data on abuses and acts of violence against journalists during the period evaluated. The criteria evaluated in the questionnaire are pluralism, media independence, media environment and self-censorship, legislative framework, transparency, and the quality of the infrastructure that supports the production of news and information. Not a lot of journalists get assaulted in New Zealand. I’m not sure that tells us much about their (lack of) respect for the free speech rights of their subjects. from [https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/human-freedom-index-2018.pdf](https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/human-freedom-index-2018.pdf) the relevant bits would seem to be: > [@](#): > > **Expression and Information** > This category measures a broad range of freedom, including that affecting personal expression, the press, and use of the internet. > Press killed refers to murders of journalists “in retribution for, or to prevent, news coverage or commentary” and journalists killed on dangerous assignments as documented by the Committee to Protect Journalists. Press jailed refers to the number of journalists imprisoned, as documented by the same source. **The indicator laws and regulations that influence media content is an assessment by Freedom House of the legal environment that governments can use to “restrict the media’s ability to operate.” The next measure is a Freedom House assessment of the political environment’s influence on the media—namely, political pressure over news and editorial content.** It also evaluates “the vibrancy of the media and the diversity of news available within each country” and indicators of violence against journalists. There is some overlap of coverage among those components. Notice anything there in the bit I highlighted? The Frazer Institute’s “Human Freedom Index” is just recycling the Freedom House’s ranking (your first cite, which we’ve agreed to ignore), flawed as it is. No shit they “pretty much say exactly the same thing”. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/115 "2019-03-19T10:45:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I “cherry-picked” the one bit of the report that seemed relevant to the thread topic: “Should the New Zealand Live Stream of Massacre be Censored”. How NZ treats gays (G3) or whether their last elections were fair (A1-3) doesn’t really seem all that relevant to a discussion about censorship. …calling New Zealand a “tyrannical shithole” is pretty fucking well off topic as well, don’t you agree? You made that claim. If that claim is based exclusively on a single incident that we don’t even know the facts yet then I suggest you retract it because I’ve provided plenty of evidence that New Zealand is far from being in a state of tyranny. I’m refuting your assertion. If your assertion was “off topic” then you shouldn’t have posted it. > [@](#): > > The other indexes you cited strike me as similarly off-topic: > > from [https://rsf.org/en/detailed-methodology](https://rsf.org/en/detailed-methodology) > > Not a lot of journalists get assaulted in New Zealand. I’m not sure that tells us much about their (lack of) respect for the free speech rights of their subjects. Yep. Not a lot of journalists get assaulted in New Zealand. That’s an important metric in determining press freedom. The threat of assault stifles free and open reporting. > [@](#): > > from [https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/human-freedom-index-2018.pdf](https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/human-freedom-index-2018.pdf) the relevant bits would seem to be: > > Notice anything there in the bit I highlighted? The Frazer Institute’s “Human Freedom Index” is just recycling the Freedom House’s ranking (your first cite, which we’ve agreed to ignore), flawed as it is. No shit they “pretty much say exactly the same thing”. I’ve provided more cites than you’ve provided. Just accept it: New Zealand is more free than the United States and you guys are closer to the DPRK than we will ever be. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/116 "2019-03-19T16:59:50Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …calling New Zealand a “tyrannical shithole” is pretty fucking well off topic as well, don’t you agree? … No, I don’t agree. On the topic of censorship, New Zealand appears to be significantly worse than I realized. Sure, you guys treat gays nice, and your elections appear to be fair, so kudos there, but those are not the topic of this thread. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > … You made that claim. If that claim is based exclusively on a single incident that we don’t even know the facts yet then I suggest you retract it because I’ve provided plenty of evidence that New Zealand is far from being in a state of tyranny. I’m refuting your assertion. If your assertion was “off topic” then you shouldn’t have posted it. … I’ve found your evidence to be erroneous or irrelevant and generally unconvincing. Others are free to examine your “plenty of evidence”, and my analysis of it, and reach their own conclusions. I’m not inclined to “retract” my opinion on the matter, at least as of yet. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > … Yep. Not a lot of journalists get assaulted in New Zealand. That’s an important metric in determining press freedom. The threat of assault stifles free and open reporting. … Sure, and so does imprisoning people for posting video of the event. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > … I’ve provided more cites than you’ve provided. Just accept it: New Zealand is more free than the United States and you guys are closer to the DPRK than we will ever be. See above. I disagree, and this being IMHO, and me not living in New Zealand, I’m free to say so. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/117 "2019-03-19T17:52:16Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@kambuckta](#): > > Oh goodie, the Dikta show again. Feel free to express your opinions about what HurricaneDitka or anyone else posts in this forum, but if you want to actually attack the poster and not the posts, please do so in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/118 "2019-03-19T20:08:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, I don’t agree. On the topic of censorship, New Zealand appears to be significantly worse than I realized. Sure, you guys treat gays nice, and your elections appear to be fair, so kudos there, but those are not the topic of this thread. …“being significantly worse than you realized” does not make New Zealand a tyrannical shithole. You can’t justify that statement. You can’t quantify that statement. It was a needless, thoughtless turd of an insult that you dropped into this thread for no reason at all. It most certainly was off-topic and you should own up to that. > [@](#): > > I’ve found your evidence to be erroneous or irrelevant and generally unconvincing. You’ve provided zero evidence New Zealand is a tyrannical shithole. A single datapoint does not prove your point. > [@](#): > > Others are free to examine your “plenty of evidence”, and my analysis of it, and reach their own conclusions. I’m not inclined to “retract” my opinion on the matter, at least as of yet. You should retract. There are actual tyrannical shithole’s out there that deserve that title. You should reserve those words for countries that actually deserve it. > [@](#): > > Sure, and so does imprisoning people for posting video of the event. Except that wasn’t the only reason he has been detained. You know that. Why are you ignoring that? Pretending that he isn’t also being detained for, among other things, posting a photo of the mosque in question (in the weeks prior to the shooting) with the words “target identified” on top of it, as well as several other incitements to extreme violence? Why are you pretending that none of that happened? > [@](#): > > See above. I disagree, and this being IMHO, and me not living in New Zealand, I’m free to say so. You are free to do whatever the fuck you like. The objective evidence though clearly shows New Zealand is a free country, it is objectively more free than the United States of America, and that if any country is “closer to the DPRK” it is the United States, not New Zealand. It is entirely possible for an opinion to be wrong. “Its just my opinion” isn’t a defense against objective fact. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/119 "2019-03-19T20:47:31Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Anything like that would go straight to the parent company. People actually get paid to handle stuff like that. That letter really isn’t something that matters for here. We don’t delete anything… > … > When it comes to Issues that cross borders it gets more complicated. I’ve dealt with it going the other way, trying to get information from a Canadian company. Unlike dealing with a company like Verizon that we contact directly, any warrants or court requests are coordinated through the FBI and the Department of State and are processed through Canadian courts. I’m sure it’s similar in the other direction. Loach, with a related question, given that NZ is aggressively criminally sanctioning people if disseminate, and maybe even possess, the video, what is the SDMB’s policy about links posted here to sites that still have a copy of the video or manifesto? If the rule is to prohibit mention, then is the reason why that a country has deemed the material illegal to distribute, and if so, why does NZ get a veto, and not, say, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia? I already picked up a Warning for mentioning the existence of free streaming services, and I’d rather not run afoul of that rule again. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/120 "2019-03-19T20:54:28Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …“being significantly worse than you realized” does not make New Zealand a tyrannical shithole. You can’t justify that statement. You can’t quantify that statement. It was a needless, thoughtless turd of an insult that you dropped into this thread for no reason at all. It most certainly was off-topic and you should own up to that. … It’s an opinion, in IMHO. I don’t feel the need to “justify” or “quantify” it. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …You’ve provided zero evidence New Zealand is a tyrannical shithole. A single datapoint does not prove your point. … We’ve got at least two datapoints, an 18-year-old and a 22-year-old. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > … There are actual tyrannical shithole’s out there that deserve that title. You should reserve those words for countries that actually deserve it. … Out of idle curiosity, which countries do you think actually deserve it? > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …Except that wasn’t the only reason he has been detained. You know that. Why are you ignoring that? Pretending that he isn’t also being detained for, among other things, posting a photo of the mosque in question (in the weeks prior to the shooting) with the words “target identified” on top of it, as well as several other incitements to extreme violence? Why are you pretending that none of that happened? … Because the most disconcerting thing your government is doing here is threatening people for possessing the video: “We would like to remind people that it is an offence to distribute or possess an objectionable publication [under the Films Videos and Publications Classifications Act 1993], which carries a penalty of imprisonment”. Your post here is the first time I can recall hearing that the “target identified” (elsewhere I’d seen it as “target acquired”) post came prior to attack. Do you have a source for that? What about the “several other incitements to extreme violence”? I’d prefer to examine the actual statements myself. Do you have any details, or are you just accepting the authorities’ word on the matter? > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …You are free to do whatever the fuck you like. The objective evidence though clearly shows New Zealand is a free country, it is objectively more free than the United States of America, and that if any country is “closer to the DPRK” it is the United States, not New Zealand. It is entirely possible for an opinion to be wrong. “Its just my opinion” isn’t a defense against objective fact. Sure, and you’re entitled to your opinion on the matter, as is the Fraser Institute. I don’t think either of them rise to the level of “objective fact”, but here is one: My government hasn’t threatened its citizens with imprisonment for possession of video of the attack. Yours has. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193.md?page=7)