# Should the New Zealand Live Stream of Massacre be Censored? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 15, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193 "2019-03-15T20:27:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/161 "2019-03-27T20:28:05Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > I’d love to hear a general summary, if you don’t mind. I’m presuming it’s just a bunch of racist bullshit about how brown people are ruining NZ, but 74 pages?? There’s gotta be more to it… Yeah, you pretty much nailed it. The guy _REALLY_ hated immigrants. He talked a lot about “Europeans” (which seems odd for me since he was an Australian guy living in New Zealand). He was upset about terrorist attacks and other crimes committed by immigrants against Europeans. One particular victim (Ebba Akerlund) profoundly affected him. The bulk of it is a weird Q&A format where he poses questions to himself and answers them to lay out his reasoning / thinking / plans. He concludes with some angry messages to various groups (conservatives, christians, antifa, etc) and some general thoughts (he considers himself an “eco-fascist” but is also very adamant that Europeans need higher birth rates). Anyways, I hope that’s helpful, or at least as helpful as something can be when trying to make sense of this. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/162 "2019-03-27T20:54:17Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The manifesto includes poetry such as “Do not go gentle into that good night” by Dylan Thomas, “The Wrath of the Awakened Saxon” by Rudyard Kipling, and “Invictus” by William Ernest Henley, URLs for various Wikipedia and Facebook pages, quotes from various semi-famous figures (including a Pope!), etc. I’m pretty confident that Thomas, Kipling, et al didn’t just get banned. > [@](#): > > And if portions aren’t considered “objectionable”, minor changes to the manifesto could immunize the possessors. Indeed, “could”, and logically should. I’m not sure what if any response I’ll get but I think an enquiry to the censorship team at the Department of Internal Affairs is in order. This could be interesting; I’ve never been part of the green-ink brigade. 😉 > [@](#): > > Anyways, I’ll be curious to see if New Zealand’s compliance rates are as dismal as the various blue states that have tried gun bans recently here in the USA. While a few people have voluntarily handed in weapons for destruction I suspect the grace period will endure until the buy-back plan is in place an owners can be compensated. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/163 "2019-03-27T21:29:28Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > I’d love to hear a general summary, if you don’t mind. I’m presuming it’s just a bunch of racist bullshit about how brown people are ruining NZ, but 74 pages?? There’s gotta be more to it… It’s my understanding it’s in part a list of targets and a how-to guide on terrorist massacres, not just racist rants. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/164 "2019-03-27T21:57:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yeah, you pretty much nailed it. The guy _REALLY_ hated immigrants. He talked a lot about “Europeans” (which seems odd for me since he was an Australian guy living in New Zealand). He was upset about terrorist attacks and other crimes committed by immigrants against Europeans. One particular victim (Ebba Akerlund) profoundly affected him. The bulk of it is a weird Q&A format where he poses questions to himself and answers them to lay out his reasoning / thinking / plans. He concludes with some angry messages to various groups (conservatives, christians, antifa, etc) and some general thoughts (he considers himself an “eco-fascist” but is also very adamant that Europeans need higher birth rates). Anyways, I hope that’s helpful, or at least as helpful as something can be when trying to make sense of this. Thank you. Oddly I haven’t been able to find the entire document online (although I haven’t really tried that hard). > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s my understanding it’s in part a list of targets and a how-to guide on terrorist massacres, not just racist rants. If it contains ‘How To’ information, then I can better understand why the government wants to censor it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/165 "2019-03-27T22:46:51Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s my understanding it’s in part a list of targets and a how-to guide on terrorist massacres, not just racist rants. > [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > … If it contains ‘How To’ information, then I can better understand why the government wants to censor it. I don’t recall much of anything in the way of “how to” information or a list of targets. I remember him briefly explaining why he chose the particular mosques he did, and some discussion about why he settled on firearms. Like I said though, I did get bored and skimmed through parts of it, so it’s certainly possible I missed / forgot about something relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Kiwi\_Fruit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiwi_fruit/32/12_2.png) [@Kiwi\_Fruit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiwi_Fruit)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/166 "2019-03-28T01:25:50Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s not just that the government is censoring it, but _how_ they’re going about it that I find shocking. Their privacy commissioner is lobbying Facebook for usernames so that he can turn them over to the police. The punishment is falling on individual New Zealanders. > > It’s one thing, for example, for the government to tell broadcasters that they can’t say certain words on television during certain hours, the punishment for which might be a fine or loss of broadcasting license, and which would fall on a relative handful of broadcasters who one might reasonably expect to be well-acquainted with the rules of their industry. This would be more like arresting and imprisoning anyone who watched the broadcast that included the prohibited language, or at least it seems that way to my American sensibilities. Note that Edwards is _lobbying_ Facebook. There is no mechanism by which he can force them to reveal names or details except maybe a search warrant. Unlikely to get one as the alleged offenders are generally anonymous, meaning it would only be a fishing expedition. I don’t believe the police would want to go down that road. Also, it’s not the ones that viewed but those that shared he’s after. So not analogous to watching the broadcast of prohibited words. As a proponent of free speech, do you think that any restrictions should be placed on speech by the government? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/167 "2019-03-28T03:16:48Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > … Oddly I haven’t been able to find the entire document online (although I haven’t really tried that hard). … [Here is a link to apply for an exemption](https://www.classificationoffice.govt.nz/assets/PDFs/Exemption-info-form-The-Great-Replacement.docx) > [@](#): > > Applying for an exemption to access or hold a copy or copies of the banned document “The Great Replacement” > > The document distributed online by the accused perpetrator of the March 15 Christchurch terror attacks (“The Great Replacement”) has been banned by the NZ Office of Film and Literature Classification. This means that it is illegal to possess or distribute the document. > > The Chief Censor is able to grant exemptions to the ban for specific purposes and to specific individuals or organisations, in cases where it is clearly in the public interest to do so. > > Our decision recognises that some individuals or organisations may have legitimate reasons to access or hold a copy of the document. For example, the document may have some utility for academic or research purposes and some aspects may be relevant for media outlets who are seeking background on the attacker, his influences and motivations. > > Before requesting an exemption you will need to provide us with the following information: > Name > Contact Details Phone: Email: > Organisation (if applicable) > Role (if applicable) > Why are you seeking an exemption? > How long do you want the exemption for? > Who will have access to the publication? > How will the document be kept secure? > > Please send this information to: info@classificationoffice.govt.nz. > > On receiving the form, we will contact you with further information. If you then decide to proceed with a formal application, please note that this will incur a fee of $102.20. > > If you have any questions about this process please contact the Classification Office: info@classificationoffice.govt.nz | 0508 236 767 | 04 471 6770. > > If you are a journalist requesting an interview or comment, please contact Acting Communications Manager Sia Aston: 021 677729 | Sia.Aston@classificationoffice.govt.nz. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/168 "2019-03-28T03:25:00Z")
> [@Kiwi\_Fruit](#): > > … As a proponent of free speech, do you think that any restrictions should be placed on speech by the government? I accept some restrictions as reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Kiwi\_Fruit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiwi_fruit/32/12_2.png) [@Kiwi\_Fruit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiwi_Fruit)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/169 "2019-03-29T01:21:05Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > [Here is a link to apply for an exemption](https://www.classificationoffice.govt.nz/assets/PDFs/Exemption-info-form-The-Great-Replacement.docx) As **Enola Gay** isn’t in New Zealand, the classification and restriction doesn’t apply. Unless you are a resident of this “tyrannical shithole”, knock your socks off reading it if you can find it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/170 "2019-03-29T02:51:30Z")
> [@Kiwi\_Fruit](#): > > As **Enola Gay** isn’t in New Zealand, the classification and restriction doesn’t apply. Unless you are a resident of this “tyrannical shithole”, knock your socks off reading it if you can find it. Thanks for the clarification. Is “knock your socks off reading it” an indication that you don’t think it should be censored? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/171 "2019-03-29T09:35:37Z")
**HurricaneDitka** , What if the Christchurch shooter was the Christchurch rapist; would New Zealand be a “tyrannical shithole” for controlling the livestream then? You seem quite odious, but are there lines you won’t cross (out of rationale or any American-based cultural norms)? How absolute is your, IMO selectively blind, allegiance to “free speech?” Do victims (many trying to recover in-and-out-of hospitals right now) deserve privacy rights? Does anybody deserve privacy rights? I’m curious. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/172 "2019-03-29T12:22:04Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@orcenio](#): > > **You seem quite odious** , but are there lines you won’t cross (out of rationale or any American-based cultural norms)? (bolding mine) Personal insults don’t belong in this thread or forum. Don’t do this again. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/173 "2019-03-29T13:43:37Z")
Mistaken the forum. I’ll be more careful. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/174 "2019-03-29T13:45:27Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > **HurricaneDitka** , What if the Christchurch shooter was the Christchurch rapist; would New Zealand be a “tyrannical shithole” for controlling the livestream then? Very interesting point. I’m actually rethinking my own position here. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/175 "2019-03-30T00:56:54Z")
Aside from the manifesto, his weapons and magazines were graffitied with weird references, many including Islam and Turkey/ the Balkans. I understood a few, but most were obscure to me. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/176 "2019-03-30T00:58:45Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > **HurricaneDitka** , What if the Christchurch shooter was the Christchurch rapist… There wouldn’t be half a hundred victims, for one. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/177 "2019-03-31T15:17:32Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Very interesting point. I’m actually rethinking my own position here. Seconded. I wonder if he/she’ll get an answer. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/178 "2019-04-01T16:18:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Seconded. I wonder if he/she’ll get an answer. A dude BTW. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/179 "2019-04-01T17:35:07Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > A dude BTW. Thanks for letting me know. ---
**Author:** ![Kiwi\_Fruit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiwi_fruit/32/12_2.png) [@Kiwi\_Fruit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiwi_Fruit)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2019, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193/180 "2019-04-02T01:12:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Thanks for the clarification. Is “knock your socks off reading it” an indication that you don’t think it should be censored? Sorry for disappearing, I was away for the weekend. I’m ambivalent about censoring this, but I’d normally go with not censoring ideas. If it’s a list of targets, and I was one of them I think I’d want to know, yes? I do consider the livestream as obscene as child pornography. I don’t like seeing violence get a pass that even mild sexual behaviour doesn’t get. Think of the Superbowl wardrobe malfunction giving everyone the vapours compared with screening of boxing title fights. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-new-zealand-live-stream-of-massacre-be-censored/831193.md?page=10)