# Should the Olympics allow transexuals to compete? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 14, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314 "2003-11-14T21:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/1 "2003-11-14T21:13:24Z")
[I am not making this up!!](http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_838394.html) Please tell me this is a joke. "\*IOC medical director Patrick Schamasch said: “We will have no discrimination. The IOC will respect human rights.” Schamasch said transsexual athletes will be eligible for the Olympics once they have passed a certain amount of time after sex change surgery. The exact length of the waiting period hasn’t been determined. “The trend is to have an ineligibility period. Then after certain conditions have been fulfilled, the athlete will be able to compete in his or her new sex,” he added."\* When has this been a problem? The body goes through such dramatic changes during this procedure that I don`t see how this can be addressed fairly. Steroids are illegal, how can a regiment that _completely_ changes the structure of the body be accepted? ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/2 "2003-11-14T21:51:57Z")
I think the idea is that nobody would go through this procedure frivolously, not even to win olympic medals. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/3 "2003-11-14T22:21:16Z")
The idea seems to be to prevent competitors in certain fields (track-and-field especially) from changing gender just before the games, which might (and probably would) grant an unfair advantage. The Olympics has had, if I recall correctly, sex tests since the 1968 Summer Games (for women only), and there have been people who’ve failed them. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/4 "2003-11-14T23:50:53Z")
I don’t have a problem with it philosophically, but say a man converts to a woman - how much of the physical advantages (muscle mass, bone structure, etc.) inherent to men are still present? I don’t think it would be fair if a woman competed, but still had the physical advantages in men. That’s why there are different competitions in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/5 "2003-11-15T00:14:43Z")
I am sure someone who was never going to be of Olympic tinalist standard as a man would strongly consider a sex change opperation to be a contender as a woman. I susspect for many athletes at such a high level their sport is everything to them. Like restrictions on drug taking, the rules are in part to stop cheating but also to protect athletes from doing damaging things to themselves. A set of rules that would stop athletes from being able to have a sex change for an unfair advantage, but would not disscriminate against those who have a sex change for a more genuine reason would seem to be necessary. That seems to be what the IOC are trying to do. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/6 "2003-11-15T00:41:51Z")
Muscle mass, bone structure and physical strength vary widely even within genders and within sports – look at the wide range of physiques in women’s tennis, as a for instance – so I’m not sure why reassignment surgery should bar one from sports competition if being taller than average (the aforementioned Davenport) or very muscular (see the Williams sisters or Jennifer Capriati) doesn’t. Does a 5"8’, 135lb. MtF transsexual fully loaded with a post-operative dose of female hormones have an advantage over a 5"11’, 170lb. born female whose training has never been interrupted for recuperation from an extremely intensive surgery? Does a 5"11’ 170lb. MtF transsexual hold a _different_ advantage than a 5"11’ 170lb. born female? As an aside, none of the women who have failed the test that the IOC performs have been males impersonating women in an attempt to gain an unfair advantage. Most have been physically female with chromosomal or genetic anomalies such as extra chromosomes (something which occurs in 6 in 1000 people) or androgen insensitivity. It’s also worth noting that the International Amateur Athletic Federation recommended the abolishing of the “gender verification” tests more than a decade ago, not only because there has never been a case of a female impersonator, but because there is no evidence that the women whose anomalies cause them to be banned from competition have any biological advantage to begin with. If the testing is, at long last, done away with, there would be no way (nor any reason) for anyone to be aware that a competitor is transsexual unless the competitor makes it known themselves. Sounds like a plan to me. ---
**Author:** ![DreadCthulhu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DreadCthulhu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DreadCthulhu)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/7 "2003-11-15T01:55:00Z")
Well, I think they should do away with segregating the genders in competitions; let the best athlete win. ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/8 "2003-11-15T02:35:22Z")
Wait a minute… Don’t post-op transexuals need to take fairly heavy doses of testosterone or estrogen for the rest of their live? Would this be considered taking trugs to enahnce performance (especially with regard to testosterone)? Barry ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/9 "2003-11-15T02:53:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DreadCthulhu \* > \*\*Well, I think they should do away with segregating the genders in competitions; let the best athlete win. \*\* And then we can sit back and watch the shrieking when not a single woman wins an athletic event, and very few, if any, win the skill events. I am having a hard time thinking that you are at all serious about that. ---
**Author:** ![Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/96bed5/32.png) [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/10 "2003-11-15T03:00:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > **And then we can sit back and watch the shrieking when not a single woman wins an athletic event, and very few, if any, win the skill events.** Naturally then the solution will be to give all the women extra points or whatever so that they can compete “fairly”. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/11 "2003-11-15T04:02:23Z")
It is my opinion that you should have to use your God given body (pre-op) and what enhancements you can gain by training only. No surgery, drugs, or body altering regimens. If you’re an Olympic athlete you should have to refrain from a sex-change procedure unless you desire to withdraw from competition. Generally, you have extensive training in the specific event(s) long before you reach the point if your life that you would decide to undergo such a procedure. You would, I think, be trying to gain advantage. How could you prove otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/12 "2003-11-15T04:03:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fang \* > \*\*Naturally then the solution will be to give all the women extra points or whatever so that they can compete “fairly”. \*\* Na, Handicapping sucks. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/13 "2003-11-15T04:12:18Z")
Someone enlighten me on how is sex-testing done today? Is it still done by checking for the presence of Barr bodies in the nucleus? ---
**Author:** ![mrsam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5ac83/32.png) [@mrsam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrsam)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/14 "2003-11-15T04:36:37Z")
Here’s another [story](http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/11/14/1068674355970.html) on this. > [@](#): > > Details are still being worked out, but Schamasch said transsexual athletes will be eligible for the Olympics once they have passed a certain amount of time after sex-change surgery. > > “The trend is to have an ineligibility period,” he said. > > “Then after certain conditions have been fulfilled, the athlete will be able to compete in his or her new sex.” > > The exact length of the waiting period hasn’t been determined. Schamasch said officials want to make sure that any side effects of hormone therapy have worn off. > > … > > Some contend transsexual athletes have a physical advantage against other women. > > Men have higher levels of testosterone and greater muscle-to-fat ratio and heart and lung capacity. > > However, doctors say, testosterone levels and muscle mass drop after hormone therapy and sex-change surgery. > > Until 1999, the IOC conducted gender verification tests at the Olympics but the controversial screenings were dropped before the 2000 Sydney Games. > > One reason for the change was that not all women have standard female chromosomes. > > In addition, there are cases of people who have ambiguous genitalia or other congenital conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/15 "2003-11-15T04:51:30Z")
Band Name of the Day - \*\*ambiguous genitalia \*\* ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/16 "2003-11-15T05:25:45Z")
Wait, we want to do away with the gender segregation so the best athlete can win…but we’ll give the women extra points? I know you put “fairly” in quotes there, but my head STILL hurts. Ow, ow, ow. ---
**Author:** ![Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/96bed5/32.png) [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/17 "2003-11-15T07:15:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by whuckfistle \* > \*\*Na, Handicapping sucks. \*\* Obviously. Prediction (tongue-in-cheek of course), not endorsement. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/18 "2003-11-16T02:28:30Z")
I’ve lost a **lot** of strength since going on HRT. I don’t think a male-to-female transsexual athlete would be at any significant advantage after having been on HRT for a year or more. IMO, the IOC’s rules appear to be based on empirical evidence and fairly balance the need for fairness in competition with the need to recognize the human rights of transsexuals. The IOC’s old policy of sex typing also unfairly discriminated against intersexuals. **whuckfistle** , you’d disqualify any athlete who had had any sort of surgery or used any form of medication, ever? ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/19 "2003-11-17T21:11:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\*I’ve lost a **lot** of strength since going on HRT. I don’t think a male-to-female transsexual athlete would be at any significant advantage after having been on HRT for a year or more. > > IMO, the IOC’s rules appear to be based on empirical evidence and fairly balance the need for fairness in competition with the need to recognize the human rights of transsexuals. The IOC’s old policy of sex typing also unfairly discriminated against intersexuals. > > **whuckfistle** , you’d disqualify any athlete who had had any sort of surgery or used any form of medication, ever? \*\* Not unless they had steel ligaments implanted or were on special performance enhancing meds. This process dramatically changes the body to the point that you no longer have the package you were born with. To keep everything **fair** , you should use your God given body and any amount of training you can tolerate. No medical procedures, or altering chemicals. ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314/20 "2003-11-18T00:07:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > **And then we can sit back and watch the shrieking when not a single woman wins an athletic event, and very few, if any, win the skill events.** Why should the gender of people matter? I agree, do away with the distinction. Let the best person win. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-olympics-allow-transexuals-to-compete/213314.md?page=2)