# Should the Oscars go non-binary? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 8, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130 "2017-05-08T14:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/21 "2017-05-08T21:50:27Z")
More simply, it would halve the number of acting awards. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/22 "2017-05-08T22:01:46Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I’m still not sure it’s an issue. Let’s say Asia Kate Dillon is nominated for an Emmy for her (his? their? I don’t know Asia’s pronoun of preference) work on _Billions_. FYI, Asia Kate Dillon’s preferred pronouns are they, their and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/23 "2017-05-08T23:22:34Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It would be excruciating to tell Meryl Streep that her performance as Margaret Thatcher, The Iron Lady wasn’t as good as Jean Dujardin, in The Artist. Both roles deserved to win and be honored in 2012. > > I’d hate to tell either actor that new rules denied them a win. By coincidence, the bit mentioned upthread – aping the Golden Globes, by dividing the awards between “Drama” and “Comedy or Musical” – would’ve allowed for both, seeing as how Streep won one and Dujardin won the other. (The year after that, Daniel Day-Lewis of course won the Oscar for Best Actor, along with a Golden Globe for doing it in a drama; and Jennifer Lawrence won the Oscar for Best Actress, along with a Golden Globe for doing it in a comedy or musical – kind of like how, in the latest go-round, Casey Affleck and Emma Stone did the same.) ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/24 "2017-05-08T23:41:02Z")
In some hypothetical future where gender-blind casting has become the norm and men and women have equal opportunities to compete for the same roles, I might be in favor of it. Until then, we live in a world where the opportunities open to male and female actors are not only almost completely different, but also unequal (lots fewer movies with female leads, _very_ limited roles for women over 40 or so). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/25 "2017-05-09T08:51:34Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I’m still not sure it’s an issue. Let’s say Asia Kate Dillon is nominated for an Emmy for her (his? their? I don’t know Asia’s pronoun of preference) work on _Billions_. I’d imagine the studio would have to select which existing category to put the nomination into – just like when deciding if a performance is a _lead_ role or a _supporting_ role, or if _The Martian_ is a drama or a comedy. It comes down to which category the studio thinks gives the actor a better shot at winning. Perhaps unfairly, Asia might have an advantage by qualifying for either category. What does the studio have to do with anything? Asia themself does not identify as male or female, and thus you would be misgendering them by nominating them for either award. The honor is tinged with an insult. (And, yes, I used “themself,” as I would like to bring that into the lexicon so that we keep numerical agreement.) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/26 "2017-05-09T09:10:49Z")
At the moment, it’s likely that if they merged the actor awards, they’d very quickly prove to be won 80% of the time by a male. There is a significantly smaller number of decent parts for women, in Hollywood, a much stronger emphasis on hiring for looks than acting talent, and women are pushed out of the career sooner, rather than being able to build up a portfolio that would lead into nabbing an Oscar-class role. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/27 "2017-05-09T09:28:58Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > At the moment, it’s likely that if they merged the actor awards, they’d very quickly prove to be won 80% of the time by a male. There is a significantly smaller number of decent parts for women, in Hollywood, a much stronger emphasis on hiring for looks than acting talent, and women are pushed out of the career sooner, rather than being able to build up a portfolio that would lead into nabbing an Oscar-class role. :dubious: None of the make actors I listed above won for their looks. Of the actresses, three were forty plus at the time, Streep,Moore and Blanchett while of the younger winners, Lawrence won for playing a mentally disturbed widow and Larson for a long term kidnapping victim. Neither is a role which is going to be effected by looks or age. As it is, having one category would cut down on the tendancy of younger actresses getting nominated cause they are popular. Amy Adams and Jessica Chastian might actually have a shot at winning. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/28 "2017-05-09T10:12:01Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > :dubious: > None of the make actors I listed above won for their looks. Of the actresses, three were forty plus at the time, Streep,Moore and Blanchett while of the younger winners, Lawrence won for playing a mentally disturbed widow and Larson for a long term kidnapping victim. Neither is a role which is going to be effected by looks or age. > > As it is, having one category would cut down on the tendancy of younger actresses getting nominated cause they are popular. Amy Adams and Jessica Chastian might actually have a shot at winning. I feel like you have severely misread what I wrote. I did not link beauty nor youth to winning Oscars. I did the reverse, which you seem to agree with. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/29 "2017-05-09T10:40:01Z")
It just seems to me that dividing by gender always feels specious and arbitrary, like dividing actors by age or weight category. It makes no sense. However, it would be reasonable if the categories were divided by movie genre. Like best acting in a drama, action/horror or comedy/musical. Hell, add best voice-over acting for animation. And who doesn’t want to see The Rock get an oscar? ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/30 "2017-05-09T12:22:59Z")
Its interesting how quickly the discussion moves from ‘is it the right thing to do’ to ‘what can go wrong’. All of the numerous hurdles that allow the current system of awards to operate have been resolved or worked on. There is no reason to suspect that a new system, which may have identical or new and unique hurdles will not get them sorted out within a few years. Personally I would like the Academy to spend a year awarding categories of Best Male and Female Editor, Blackest Producer, Most Ethnically Named Composer and Best Foreign Movie with a Three Word Title to give everyone the shits and to underscore just how obnoxious the current gender-based distinctions are. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/31 "2017-05-09T12:34:23Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > As it is, having one category would cut down on the tendancy of younger actresses getting nominated cause they are popular. Amy Adams and Jessica Chastian might actually have a shot at winning. Amy Adams will win an Oscar within five years. As to the issue of age, it is indisputably the case that female actors who win Oscars are younger than male actors. It is actually rare for young men to win Oscars; only one man, Adrien Brody, has won Best Actor before turning 30 and then just by a few weeks. Many women have won Best Actress in their twenties; Emma Stone was 28 when she was handed her statue, and she’s not even one of the ten youngest women to win Best Actress. In the supporting categories only four men in their twenties (Timothy Hutton, Cuba Gooding Jr., George Chakiris, and Heath Ledger) have won; in Best Supporting Actress the list is, again, a long one, including three children (the number of children nominated is at least fifteen, by my count.) Now, I suppose it’s possible that there is some genetic thing that makes women’s acting skill peak earlier. But I really doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/32 "2017-05-09T12:42:25Z")
You can’t simply scrap millions of years of social identity, just because of the momentary popular success in the arts by a people who declare(s) theirself to be out of step and make(s) up new pronouns to fit. It’s like asking the Census Bureau to discontinue identifying people by verbalizable names just because Sting did. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/33 "2017-05-09T12:46:28Z")
[This article](http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/02/oscar-winning-characters) is illustrative of the differences between the roles that win men and women Oscars. Men have won most often by playing a criminal, and women have won most often by playing a wife. And unsurprisingly no man has ever won by playing a husband. Hollywood has gotten better in more recent years, but the roles available for men and women are still unequal. There are a lot of things that should be focused on before making Oscar acting roles non-binary. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/34 "2017-05-09T13:12:16Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > . And unsurprisingly no man has ever won by playing a husband. Your own cite accredits two men with winning Oscars for playing “a husband.” It doesn’t say which ones they were, though my guesses would be Henry Fonda and Kevin Spacey. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/35 "2017-05-09T13:35:58Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Your own cite accredits two men with winning Oscars for playing “a husband.” It doesn’t say which ones they were, though my guesses would be Henry Fonda and Kevin Spacey. Sorry, I misstated, you are correct. The study actually found “no Best Actors have won for playing boyfriends or prostitutes, though there are two girlfriends and six prostitutes in the annals of Best Actresses.” I’d like to see how they categorized each winner specifically, but the overall categories do illustrate that men win with more active roles, and women more often win with roles that are responsive to men. The fault is not solely with the Oscars, it illustrates the differences in roles that men and women get in movies. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/36 "2017-05-09T14:39:55Z")
After seeing the MTV awards, I thought this was going to be about combining awards for acting for movies and TV. Lots of the “big” movie stars may have a fit, but with the latest crop of great TV series, there might be some surprises when TV actors win. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/37 "2017-05-09T14:43:18Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > You can’t simply scrap millions of years of social identity, just because of the momentary popular success in the arts by a people who declare(s) theirself to be out of step and make(s) up new pronouns to fit. > > It’s like asking the Census Bureau to discontinue identifying people by verbalizable names just because Sting did. Then why is there no Best Female/Male in all the categories? Acting is a job, just like any other. Why should there be a distinction between an actor’s job and the electrician, sound engineer, make-up artist, director or any of the dozens of people who make a movie happen who also get awards? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/38 "2017-05-09T16:23:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Part of the problem is being obsessed with “the best”. You could do like the Olympics and offer Gold-Bronze-Silver (all medalist are acclaimed), or even offer Best Actors-- that is, the top 3 or 5 actors (men or women) in a given category. This. Just give everyone a Participation Oscar and call it a night. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/39 "2017-05-09T16:31:53Z")
> [@swampspruce](#): > > Then why is there no Best Female/Male in all the categories? Acting is a job, just like any other. Why should there be a distinction between an actor’s job and the electrician, sound engineer, make-up artist, director or any of the dozens of people who make a movie happen who also get awards? I explained that in an earlier post. Because the actors are visible to the audience, and because they are, for that reason, not interchangeable in a particular role without regard to gender. Get a screenwriter to write a story in which the gender of the characters is irrelevant to the story line, and the gender of the actors would then be interchangeable. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130/40 "2017-05-09T16:32:27Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > What does the studio have to do with anything? Asia themself does not identify as male or female, and thus you would be misgendering them by nominating them for either award. The honor is tinged with an insult. > > (And, yes, I used “themself,” as I would like to bring that into the lexicon so that we keep numerical agreement.) No offense intended to Asia; I was under the impression that actors were usually nominated by the studio but on reflection I realize that is probably incorrect. My point was that whoever did the nomination - since I assume Asia is ineligible to nominate themself - would likely pick the one in which Asia would be seen to have the weakest competition. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-oscars-go-non-binary/786130.md?page=3)