# Should the SDMB have an affirmative action policy for the conservative minority? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 8, 2015, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927 "2015-10-08T14:43:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/41 "2015-10-09T00:28:50Z")
Waitaminnit… give me a shot of tequila or something… Let me get this clear. I don’t want to be making any distortions or anything. So correct me at any point that I seem to be making an unsupported leap of whatever here, OK? Do I take it that there are … • conservative people here, perhaps _in this very thread_, who • consider it appropriate under at least SOME circumstances • to consider that the needs of the minority (in this case conservatives)… • insofar as they otherwise tend to be marginalized • (as conservatives are, in here on the SDMB, in this particular example) • … should be supported through affirmative action • ??? So 😃 … you do perhaps have a point… (and welcome aboard… you know what aboard to which you’re being welcomed…) I would be inclined to FIRST try to curb the moderators’ collective tendency to think they can moderate the very same threads that they post to. I don’t think they can. I don’t think anyone could. One becomes partisan when one has posts within the thread. Moderators of the Pit shoudl not post to the Pit, moderators to GD should not post in GD except to make moderator comments, etc. That’s my opinion. Let’s say we went with that. I would first want to see whether SDMB moderators could be sufficiently and appropriately detached from threads they have not participated in to resolve any sense amongst you conservatives (or another other contingent) that the moderators are too partisan to play fair. If the general consensus at that time was “nope, they are biased”, then I’d be totally behind the initiative to AA some non-mainstream perspectives into the moderators midst. Not that they query us for input into such policy decisions or anything but maybe they read, who knows? For what it might be worth, I always respected **Manhattan** , a moderator I always regarded as a conservative type. And I thought him fair. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/42 "2015-10-09T00:34:40Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > Wait — are you suggesting there’s only supposed to be ONE of those? One mod to rule them all… I like the sound of that. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/43 "2015-10-09T00:38:51Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Damn. You poor bastard. Did you kill a nun in a past life, or something? Well, it’s amazing what a man will do for a girl. Get this, he managed to be both liberating and offensive at the same time. 1. Eve was not responsible for the fall of man through that whole apple thing. Refreshing, no? 1. Because it was Adam’s job to keep an eye on her. Ouch! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/44 "2015-10-09T01:21:00Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > For what it might be worth, I always respected **Manhattan** , a moderator I always regarded as a conservative type. And I thought him fair. Me, too. Anyone happen to recall what reason he gave for leaving? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/45 "2015-10-09T01:21:33Z")
This is a great fair and balanced suggestion. However, I think we need to add an wacko moderator to protect the occasional wacko member, and a troll moderator for the occasional troll member, and a [del]sheep loving moderator[/del] n/m we have that covered… and a sock moderator to protect the socks and…diversity man, it’s far out. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/46 "2015-10-09T01:24:24Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I’m not actually interested in your words, in either thread. I’m only interested in your actions. I’m referring to this post of mine, in which I said: > > and to which you replied: > > You are actively trying to stack the moderation panel. I want everyone to see it. Isn’t that reply ALSO “my words?” Why is that post action and my other posts words? Do you believe I emphasized that particular post with interpretive dance? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/47 "2015-10-09T01:27:32Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Well, it’s amazing what a man will do for a girl. > > Get this, he managed to be both liberating and offensive at the same time. > > 1. Eve was not responsible for the fall of man through that whole apple thing. > > Refreshing, no? > > 1. Because it was Adam’s job to keep an eye on her. > > Ouch! Girl? _ **GIRL!?!?!?!?** _ We need more womyn as moderators! ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/48 "2015-10-09T01:38:33Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > One mod to rule them all… > > I like the sound of that. The mods can be taken down by no _man_… Hmmmmm ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/49 "2015-10-09T01:57:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Me, too. > > Anyone happen to recall what reason he gave for leaving? I was curious about the exact course of events. So I went back and looked it up. Here’s what he said in 2005 - Thread link: > **[Manhatten - Not a mod???](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=313139)** > > I only became aware of this today from reading a thread he was posting in. I understand Skipmagic replaced Coldfire and that was announced. Did I miss something? :smack: Direct link to manhattan’s post: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6082809&postcount=4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6082809&postcount=4) Lobsang, in post 4 suggests that manhattan stepped down for political reasons: > [@Lobsang](#): > > This is the drink talking: But my experience of manhattan was that he had some very right-wing views and maybe the board could do without a mod with strong opinions. > > I am often wrong about these things. manhattan, in post 5, immediately steps in and sets the record straight: > [@manhattan](#): > > Yep, you’re wrong. No one on staff ever gave me crap about my political opinions. I just got too busy to keep up with the forum to the extent I thought it deserved and retired. It was in August of 2003. Here’s the relevant thread. Here’s a link to manny’s relevant retirement thread, from 2003, started by Ed Zotti: > **[Manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=205809)** > > manhattan, GQ moderator for lo these many years, is resigning. As some of you know, manny IRL manages billions of dollars of other people’s money (no shit), and why he’s been hanging around here all this time doing a job that involves maxissimo grief... > [@Manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan/196352/1): > > **manhattan** , GQ moderator for lo these many years, is resigning. As some of you know, manny IRL manages billions of dollars of other people’s money (no shit), and why he’s been hanging around here all this time doing a job that involves maxissimo grief and no cash is a mystery to us. Nonetheless we are grateful for his efforts, will miss his mordant wit, and can only say that the fact that he won’t be patrolling GQ any more better not give anybody any ideas. Manny will continue to participate on the SDMB, post the occasional Staff Report, and accept any drinks or other favors you may wish to bestow on him at SD gatherings, although if you were thinking it would do you any good it’s a little late now. Our best wishes to manny and if he’s looking for someplace to invest some spare assets, all we can say is we asked first. And here is manhattan’s actual ‘Farewell post’ [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3871771&postcount=107](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3871771&postcount=107) > [@Manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan/196352/107): > > Thanks for the kind words, all. I’m not going anywhere, I’ve just been traded to the Staff Reports (embarrassingly, for “future consideration,” prolly some minor-league wash-up mod from an ezboard forum about Britney’s breasts). > > In the spirit of GQ, let me clear up some facts. > > I don’t manage “billions of dollars” but rather $600 MM. But yeah, it’s something of a time sink – I haven’t been as active since I got promoted 20 or so months ago. Speaking of which, how come no one ever asks any securities-related questions? Oh, and only a few thousand of it is actually mine, so no dollar-bill handouts. > > I’ll still be going to the various fests whenever possible – in fact, not modding will free up some time to do that. > > **Bib** is meaner than he looks and will play bad cop quite nicely. 😉 > > I am not eligible for the California Gubernatorial race for the reason that I am sane. > > **Alphagene** is better looking, but **Ukulele Ike** is a tiger in bed. > > I own stolen music. Maybe some other stuff from threads I’ve closed; I ain’t sayin’. But on the board, rules is rules. > > I can still swear (forum appropriately, of course), I just can’t close the thread afterwards. > > I lovelovelove the death ray thread; my only disappointment is that the membership was unable to develop one to surpass the 20’s-style death rays. I’d have made an exception to the rules for a good one. > > Spankings are still available after clearance with my fictitious girlfriend, **Canby**. > > See ya around the boards, and look for a Staff Report about the Brooklyn Bridge, coming soon to a SD front page near you! Oh, and for a retirement party thread in MPSIMS – we’re thinking Sept. 4. > > -manhattan > GQ ex-mod. So the “poor manhattan chased from the board by slavering Liberals” thing … doesn’t really check out. PS - Bricker, you actually posted in manhattan’s retirement thread, [Post 61.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=205809) You just said that the board would be poorer without him. Unquestionably true, but nothing to do with politics. Man, I love our “no deletions” policy. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/50 "2015-10-09T03:58:34Z")
Hell, the OP might as well propose an affirmative action policy for the Nazis while he’s at it. Oh, wait. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/51 "2015-10-09T07:59:37Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I was planning to say that the best criterion for mods is that they be sane, but I see that Bricker thinks that automatically makes them liberal, so now I don’t know what to suggest. It’s a problem. 😉 Intelligent, thoughtful conservatives, in point of fact, really do have a problem. Conservatism and liberalism used to be just different value systems. Today conservatism in the US, at least, is so dominated by strident extremists that moderates are either identified with them or drowned out by them. “Conservative” pretty much by definition is supposed to mean traditionalist and restrained, a _Father Knows Best_ type who always wears a (conservative) suit and tie, has a house in the suburbs, drives a station wagon, and votes for Eisenhower. Yet today it seems to denote rabid anti-government anarchists, warfaring advocates of global hegemony, deniers of facts and science, and theocratic zealots with contempt for any civil liberties except their own. “Conservative” media are now outrageous outlets like WorldNetDaily, Washington Times, and Fox News; “conservative” spokesmen are the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Sean Hannity, Joseph Farrah, Ann Coulter – not one of whom ever met a fact they couldn’t twist into a lie. So in a way I feel sorry for conservatives today. I feel bad when an intelligent poster like **Bone** has to say to a certain colorful new arrival, “please don’t be on my side”! 😉 It’s a sentiment that I think many thoughtful conservatives wish they could say to many of the prominent spokesmen who today presume to represent their cause. But this isn’t a problem that afflicts this board, IMHO. It’s not a problem that this board is going to solve, and it certainly doesn’t (again, IMHO) require any changes to how this board is moderated. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/52 "2015-10-09T09:09:50Z")
To be clear, I voted for this is ridiculous. I was reacting to that thread I linked, where something like this came up. Maybe not in so many words, but something similar, more or less asserting that the modding here is biased because all the mods are liberals. Bricker says it crimps his style. What to do, what to do. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/53 "2015-10-09T10:09:17Z")
Before any form of affirmative action can be tried, you have to first establish that conservatives are unfairly moderated. Doing it just because the board culture itself is harsh to conservatives is not possible. Plus we already have one conservative in the form of **Loach**. That’s basically proportional representation. And we know that all mods have to agree before a suspension or banning. So, if you’re getting Warned for being conservative, he should be there to help. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/54 "2015-10-09T10:11:41Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Should the SDMB have an affirmative action policy, in terms of moderator recruitment, to protect the conservative minority? No. This is a privately-run site. The First Amendment doesn’t apply. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/55 "2015-10-09T11:08:30Z")
Here’s the thing. Some posters here, I know their political leanings. **elucidator** is a liberal; **Shodan** is a conservative. That’s easy to tell from their posts, because they participate in a lot of political threads. But there are a lot more posters who don’t participate in those threads, and for those posters, who make up perhaps 80% of the board, I mostly don’t have any idea which way they lean. There are enough of them, in fact, that I’d be quite uncomfortable about extrapolating out from those whose leanings I do know, and to the point that I would be reluctant to even say that this board is majority liberal. Further, there are a number of moderators in that category, too. Would it help to have a moderator who was conservative, if nobody knew that e was conservative? Would it even matter? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/56 "2015-10-09T11:28:05Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I was curious about the exact course of events. So I went back and looked it up. Here’s what he said in 2005 - > > Thread link: > [Manhatten - Not a mod??? - About This Message Board - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=313139) > > Direct link to manhattan’s post: > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6082809&postcount=4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6082809&postcount=4) > > Lobsang, in post 4 suggests that manhattan stepped down for political reasons: > > manhattan, in post 5, immediately steps in and sets the record straight: > > Here’s a link to manny’s relevant retirement thread, from 2003, started by Ed Zotti: > > [Manhattan - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=205809) > > And here is manhattan’s actual ‘Farewell post’ > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3871771&postcount=107](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3871771&postcount=107) > > So the “poor manhattan chased from the board by slavering Liberals” thing … doesn’t really check out. > > PS - Bricker, you actually posted in manhattan’s retirement thread, [Post 61.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=205809) You just said that the board would be poorer without him. Unquestionably true, but nothing to do with politics. > Man, I love our “no deletions” policy. One thing about this place that bothers me immensely is the refusal of posters to concede factual error and the lack of social consequence (note that I am not speaking of moderation here, but board culture) for such refusal, when the poster so refusing is a reliable liberal. So I could point out that I was only “asking” why Manhattan left, and didn’t make any claim, so how could I be wrong? But of course that’s not the case – I had intended to imply that one reason for Manhattan’s departure was political disagreements. And because I don’t have any rebuttal to what’s been posted above, I must concede that my memory in this instance was evidently wrong. So I am explicitly saying: I was wrong to imply that Manhattan’s departure was a result of political views mismatch. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/57 "2015-10-09T11:30:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > One thing about this place that bothers me immensely is the refusal of posters to concede factual error and the lack of social consequence (note that I am not speaking of moderation here, but board culture) for such refusal, when the poster so refusing is a reliable liberal. > > So I could point out that I was only “asking” why Manhattan left, and didn’t make any claim, so how could I be wrong? > > But of course that’s not the case – I had intended to imply that one reason for Manhattan’s departure was political disagreements. And because I don’t have any rebuttal to what’s been posted above, I must concede that my memory in this instance was evidently wrong. So I am explicitly saying: I was wrong to imply that Manhattan’s departure was a result of political views mismatch. That’s nice. Next time you want to apologize for being wrong, could you do so without prefacing it with a swipe at liberals? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/58 "2015-10-09T11:59:24Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That’s nice. Next time you want to apologize for being wrong, could you do so without prefacing it with a swipe at liberals? I don’t know. I’m apologizing for being wrong, which means that I made a claim that I recalled as being accurate, but was then showed evidence my recollection was in error. It’s not clear to me how to reverse the process: how can my error be tested without making the error in the first place? And while I obviously did not try to deny my implication, I think it’s fair to now point out that my claim was not exactly carved in granite. The error I am apologizing for is saying, “Anyone recall why he left?” ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/59 "2015-10-09T11:59:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t know. > > I’m apologizing for being wrong, which means that I made a claim that I recalled as being accurate, but was then showed evidence my recollection was in error. It’s not clear to me how to reverse the process: how can my error be tested without making the error in the first place? > > And while I obviously did not try to deny my implication, I think it’s fair to now point out that my claim was not exactly carved in granite. The error I am apologizing for is saying, “Anyone recall why he left?” That’s not what he’s talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927/60 "2015-10-09T12:01:21Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Seriously! > > Although with regard to active mods, I’m the token woman. I guess I’m here to make sure men don’t get preferential modding, so y’all better watch out. Sorry Ms IvoryTowerDenizen but I never knew you were a Mod I guess that cancels that out (I don’t get around much anymore). From when I first started reading the board (around 1999) it has been left leaning. There is an ingrained capacity to influence mod notes and warnings. Is it prevalent or disturbing? I wouldn’t think so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-sdmb-have-an-affirmative-action-policy-for-the-conservative-minority/733927.md?page=4)