# Should the term "you guys" refer to males only, or is it more or less genderless? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 13, 2015, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-term-you-guys-refer-to-males-only-or-is-it-more-or-less-genderless/719931 "2015-05-13T12:30:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-term-you-guys-refer-to-males-only-or-is-it-more-or-less-genderless/719931/21 "2015-05-13T18:16:31Z")
I’ve been using “guys” as gender-neutral for 45+ years, so obviously the same with “you guys.” But “y’all” is an even better second-person plural, IMHO, and I use that a lot more often than “you guys.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-term-you-guys-refer-to-males-only-or-is-it-more-or-less-genderless/719931/22 "2015-05-13T18:22:16Z")
Those of us who grew up watching [The Electric Company](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BxXVz2jNxw) know that “Hey, you guys!” is genderless. ---
**Author:** ![BetsQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@BetsQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BetsQ)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-term-you-guys-refer-to-males-only-or-is-it-more-or-less-genderless/719931/23 "2015-05-13T19:19:35Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > I think “you guys,” like “mankind,” is a gender neutral term, meant to apply to both men and women. The fact that we use a masculine word to describe “men and women” is absolutely a result of the fact that the language was developed in a male-centric culture. Huh. I think you guys is completely gender neutral and will happily address groups of women that way, either verbally or via email. However, I really dislike “mankind” and never, ever use that word, because it doesn’t read as gender neutral to me. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-term-you-guys-refer-to-males-only-or-is-it-more-or-less-genderless/719931/24 "2015-05-13T19:27:44Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Part of me thinks it’s only gender-neutral if you can also refer to a bunch of guys as “you gals” without getting punched. I never hear that, but I do hear men, including straight men, affectionately call a group of men they’re talking with “bitches.” “All right, bitches, let’s play!” that kind of thing. And I don’t know what to think about that. I use “guys” in a gender-neutral way, including referring to groups of girl students as “guys.” ---
**Author:** ![Turpentine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Turpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turpentine)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-term-you-guys-refer-to-males-only-or-is-it-more-or-less-genderless/719931/25 "2015-05-13T19:44:58Z")
I don’t mind “you guys” applied to a group of all women, or to a mixed group (I’m female, by the way). I say “you guys” to my female friends and nobody seems alarmed. I always thought English was a weird language for not having a universally accepted you-plural form, a “vous” or “ustedes”. That why while I’m not fond of the southern accent and dislike some of the regional jargon I hear around here, I’m a big fan of “y’all” now. I would also like it if “ladies” was the default you-plural. To the women, it seems classy and complementary. If addressed to a group of men, the speaker sounds like a drill sergeant or a football coach. ---
**Author:** ![Missy2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Missy2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Missy2U)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-term-you-guys-refer-to-males-only-or-is-it-more-or-less-genderless/719931/26 "2015-05-13T19:55:31Z")
Gender neutral. And I use it all the time. I also a Chicagoan - if I used “y’all” I’d sound like a freakin idiot. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-term-you-guys-refer-to-males-only-or-is-it-more-or-less-genderless/719931/27 "2015-05-13T20:51:39Z")
“You guys” is genderless. As is “those guys”, “these guys”, “our guys”, “your guys”, “youse guys”, “dem guys”, “Fred’s guys”, and “my guys”. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-term-you-guys-refer-to-males-only-or-is-it-more-or-less-genderless/719931/28 "2015-05-13T21:08:24Z")
I say gender neutral, but as I said in a [previous thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8091111&postcount=64) on the same topic, it’s not unanimous. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-term-you-guys-refer-to-males-only-or-is-it-more-or-less-genderless/719931/29 "2015-05-14T00:40:06Z")
Gender neutral in the present day and outside the South. But in the 1990s I heard a bunch of women from Houston complain how coarse and offensive they thought it was when they were referred to as “you guys.” “Y’all” is nice but it does take a bit of practice for a northerner like myself to incorporate it into everyday speech without feeling self-conscious. I think I’ve done it, though. ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-term-you-guys-refer-to-males-only-or-is-it-more-or-less-genderless/719931/30 "2015-05-14T07:59:09Z")
The english language would be greatly improved bt the adoption of the northern england 2nd person plural “yous” . As well as being useful addressing groups it is also very useful when arguing with the representative of an organisation. “Yous” will clarify that it is the organisation, not the individual, that you are criticising. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-term-you-guys-refer-to-males-only-or-is-it-more-or-less-genderless/719931/31 "2015-05-14T08:34:38Z")
I think I use more often than not “folks” as a 2nd person gender neutral plural. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-term-you-guys-refer-to-males-only-or-is-it-more-or-less-genderless/719931/32 "2015-05-14T10:01:05Z")
I find that even “guy” is mostly gender neutral, with a slight preference towards male. And you gals isn’t usable mostly because “gals” itself is kinda hard to use, and “gal” is mostly used as a joke. And I prefer “humanity” to “mankind,” though I can use “humankind” for effect. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-term-you-guys-refer-to-males-only-or-is-it-more-or-less-genderless/719931/33 "2015-05-14T12:21:36Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I say gender neutral, but as I said in a [previous thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8091111&postcount=64) on the same topic, it’s not unanimous. Shoulda known a previous thread would exist-- seems like everything’s been asked here. It was interesting reading the responses in the 2006 thread vs. this one-- seems like it was mostly leaning toward ‘guys’ being gender-neutral then, but perhaps has gone a little bit further toward being universally gender-neutral in the 9 years since, judging by the responses here (for which I thank you guys). I know, too small of a sample size, but it seems like the overall opinion is a bit different. So, unless English comes up with an “official” gender-neutral group pronoun that is non-regional (being a lifelong northerner, I can’t really pull off y’all), I guess ‘guys’ it will be. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-term-you-guys-refer-to-males-only-or-is-it-more-or-less-genderless/719931/34 "2015-05-14T13:31:40Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Me, I say “y’all”. But a linguist I read once, and I’m sorry I can’t find the cite, argued that _you guys_ is becoming the standard second-person plural pronoun in American English. I do notice a growing use of _y’all_ by non-Southerners, though. Fun fact: the “y’all” contraction is, completely independently, found in [South African Indian dialects](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%27all#South_Africa) as well. But not, generally speaking, “All y’all” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-term-you-guys-refer-to-males-only-or-is-it-more-or-less-genderless/719931/35 "2015-05-14T13:36:47Z")
> [@nicky](#): > > The english language would be greatly improved bt the adoption of the northern england 2nd person plural “yous” . > > As well as being useful addressing groups it is also very useful when arguing with the representative of an organisation. “Yous” will clarify that it is the organisation, not the individual, that you are criticising. South African English has a “Yous” as well (pronounced with a short -u- sound like in _push_, not a longer -u- like in _Jews_, not sure what the NE pronunciation is) but it’s considered _infra dig_ - it mostly shows up in heavily Afrikaans-influenced dialects like Cape Flats English. It is very, very useful, though. I’ve taken to actually saying “You Plural” when it’s not clear from context… ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-term-you-guys-refer-to-males-only-or-is-it-more-or-less-genderless/719931/36 "2015-05-14T13:46:19Z")
> [@Turpentine](#): > > I always thought English was a weird language for not having a universally accepted you-plural form, a “vous” or “ustedes”. Really, it’s more that we’re missing the you-singular, “thee” and “thou” having fallen from use in standard English some centuries ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-term-you-guys-refer-to-males-only-or-is-it-more-or-less-genderless/719931.md?page=1)