# Should the TSA have to be "consistent"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 26, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387 "2011-12-26T00:57:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/21 "2011-12-27T07:45:15Z")
> [@eman77](#): > > Problem solved. Now what? What’s next to complain about? I’ll go wallow in my ignorance, you can go wallow in your paranoia. Protip: if you’re a fan of cavity searches, you need only ask around and you’ll find someone to indulge your fancy. They might even wear a uniform, if the “authority figure” element is part of the thrill. ---
**Author:** ![BeaMyra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@BeaMyra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeaMyra)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/22 "2011-12-27T08:46:55Z")
You want a lack of consistancy. This means the terrorists never know what to look for. If one TSA let’s a guy with a cupcake on and the next doesn’t, that’s a good thing. Who knows when the next guy is going to find a way to make a bomb in the shape of a cupcake. You want to keep them guessing all the time, so no one knows what they’ll check The blog post earlier was laughable. She writes how she was dreaded the pat down. \Yeah that is a LOT worse than those passengers, who on 9/11 when crashing into a building at 500mph. You have so much to complain about \ This blogger doesn’t have to fly. They equate going through a scanner with having nude photos of her. It’s as if everyone thinks the TSA are supposedly getting some thrill out of groping you. Have you SEEN some of these people getting patted down? It probably makes the TSAs as sick or sicker to have to put their hand on your flesh. Everyone cries out how unfair it is, but as soon as the next plane goes down all these people will be crying out how the TSA failed. Why not take your aggravation out on the terrorists, the hijackers and assorted criminals and those who support them? They are the ones that brought this about, not the TSAs Oh and let me remind you, you ain’t all THAT. No one wants to touch you, so don’t think a TSA is getting some, big thrill out of it. It’s a new world, if you don’t want to live in it, I suggest a train, bus or or boat. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/23 "2011-12-27T08:49:09Z")
A few miscellaneous comments. > [@Mach Tuck](#): > > \ > > All this isn’t to say I’m defending the TSA - far from it. The cupcake incident was breathtakingly stupid and the judgement of the person on the scene in this case was very poor. I also think the agency should be gutted and re-imagined. I just don’t think the “consistency” argument holds a lot of water in itself. > [@BigT](#): > > And that should be when you call someone higher up than you to make the decision, rather than arbitrarily deciding for yourself. Let the people actually trained in making decisions handle it, and you stick with what your level of training can handle–checking items off a list. ISTR reading in some of the news reports that the agent DID call his supervisor, who in turn made the call to confiscate the cupcake. > [@Rilchiam](#): > > Bear in mind, it was a [cupcake **in a jar**.](http://yummycupcakes.com/Treats_Gifts.htm) Anything in any kind of container is suspect, it seems. And in some news report, they mentioned that thing about it being inside a glass jar. (I never heard of cupcakes this way.) The lame-brained argument seemed to be that the cupcake conformed itself to the container it was in, and that seemed to fit the definition of a “gel” to them. And this: > [@Kolga](#): > > Consistency would be a nice start. I have flown four times in the past five weeks, and on the last trip, the TSA agent confiscated a credit-card sized [survival tool](http://www.amazon.com/SE-Function-Credit-Survival-Pocket/dp/B000Q06LI4/ref=cm_lmf_tit_3) that I carry with me everywhere. The first three trips, I carried that thing through security no problem. This last time, it was confiscated (not that big a deal, I can get another). When I asked the agent why I was able to fly three different times with it but not this time, he said snottily “Would you like to speak to a supervisor about it?” Dude, NO, but I would like a reasonable explanation. > > Theater, indeed. Theater of the absurd. Where did you carry this thingy when they found it? Was it in your wallet? Or just in your pocket which you had to dump in that plastic tray? Did they search your wallet?? In any case, what the TSA seems to do outstandingly well is create hideous PR trouble for themselves. Not only in the idiotic decisions and searches that keep popping into the headlines, but also in the utterly mindless announcements from every level that they were acting appropriately. That really makes them look bad. For at least some of these cases, we need to hear the upper-pooh-bahs acknowledge that their agents made real asses of themselves (which only seems to happen in the most blatant cases, where there looks to be some real lawsuit on the horizon – not at all like the case when they snatch a cupcake or a corkscrew). ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/24 "2011-12-27T08:58:20Z")
I realize I’m replying to a fairly lame hijack, but… > [@BeaMyra](#): > > Why not take your aggravation out on the terrorists, the hijackers and assorted criminals and those who support them? How exactly would you propose we do that, and what good will come from it? > [@BeaMyra](#): > > They are the ones that brought this about, not the TSA Nobody forced us to create a new federal agency for airport security. I personally would have been satisfied with armoring cockpit doors and stopping there. We did this to ourselves, and I’d like to see it vastly improved or abolished. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/25 "2011-12-27T09:43:10Z")
> [@BeaMyra](#): > > You want a lack of consistancy. No, we actually don’t. We—by which I mean the 99.999999% of passengers who AREN’T terrorists and simply want to get where we’re going with a minimum of hassle—would very much like to know, in advance, which of our harmless possessions are subject to confiscation so we may put them into checked bags or leave them at home. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/26 "2011-12-27T14:04:13Z")
I’ve personally suffered abuse at the hands of the TSA several times, and witnessed it several times, and I won’t repeat those rants here. What baffles me is how the sheep-like public still continue to take it. It seems like I am the only one who ever complains, the only one who has punished the airlines by seriously curtailing flights and eliminating all unnecessary ones. I think the truth is that many people in business are secretly addicted to flying - they’re trying to rack up X million miles, like George Clooney in that inane film I forget. So they ignore the bullshit of TSA gropes and virtual strip-searches, inconsistent and arbitrary rules made up on the spot, confiscations which are clearly for the personal use of the TSA, luggage broken into and lost or outright stolen, TSA agents smuggling drugs, and an endless cavalcade of security non-events where women are made to drink their own breastmilk and bawling 3 year-old girls are frisked in a way that would have landed most people on their ass with a bloody nose. But I’ll bet for all the bleating and “Oh, wailey, wailey, wailey”'ing going on, less that 2 people in this thread have written a physical letter - not an email, not a stupid tweet, and not on your fucking Facebook wall - to their Congressperson demanding they do something to rein in the TSA. When Congresspeople start being flooded with complaints, they can smell the way the wind is blowing, and they will at least try to do something to stop the TSA abuses. I only wish Obama would do with the TSA what he’s done to the airlines via the new rights for travelers he’s put into place - something which makes me want to hug him every time I think about it. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/27 "2011-12-27T14:12:06Z")
> [@eman77](#): > > Everyone says this but I just don’t see it. The last few flights I’ve been on I’ve passed through security at several airports with no problems at all. I have not seen anybody held up either, nor has anybody I know complained about it. > > This all strikes me as confirmation bias. Huge country, millions of travelers, attention on a few incidents. Then twisting it into whatever opinions you have. > > I do not understand the fetish Americans have for accusing the government or corporations for heinous offenses like “croch-patting grandmothers” and then twisting a single unrelated incident into a lecture on how this country is going down the toilet, everything needs to be thrown out the window, and we are all “sacrificing our freedom”. > > I think people just like to create drama in their lives. I travel about 60k miles a year and I frequently witness the TSA acting like buffoons (worse: buffoons with a little bit of power). I just flew through Little Rock, which is a small airport and it wasn’t so bad, but at an airport like Dulles with a huge number of passengers, TSA is a huge PITA. What makes it most frustrating is that they aren’t really doing anything. The whole process is theater for the public and doesn’t do much of anything to improve security. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/28 "2011-12-27T14:37:55Z")
> [@BeaMyra](#): > > Everyone cries out how unfair it is, but as soon as the next plane goes down all these people will be crying out how the TSA failed. See, you’re right about this. Why? Because what I’m crying will be, “And rather than stop this actual terrorist, they were distracted by a F-ING CUPCAKE!!!” When another plane goes down, it will only add support to the “security theater” argument. We \*know \*the TSA can’t prevent a terrorist attack, we’re pissed off that they’re violating our rights \*because \*the TSA can’t prevent a terrorist attack. I’d (almost happily) give up some of my privacy and bodily autonomy and property rights to them _if I thought it would actually prevent a terrorist attack_. But since I know that the plane isn’t any safer than it was on September 10th, I’ll thank you to keep your invasive searches and strategic lack of consistency, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/29 "2011-12-27T14:42:28Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I’ve personally suffered abuse at the hands of the TSA several times, and witnessed it several times, and I won’t repeat those rants here. What annoys me are the people who pop in to these threads and say “air travel is a privilege not a right!” as if to say that someone who pays for a service shouldn’t be able to complain about the service they receive. And it demonstrates a lack of understanding that for many people air travel is a job. Something you’d rather not be doing if you had a choice. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/30 "2011-12-27T19:40:00Z")
You people act like there aren’t aviation threats and plots all the god damned time that need to be stopped. Have we even gone a whole year without some sort of plot almost succeeding? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/31 "2011-12-27T20:04:16Z")
As with all public policy decisions, I think it is reasonable to do some basic calculations on the cost of a program like TSA in money and eroded rights, versus the benefit of preserving life and property. I am not comfortable with continuing programs that are expensive and intrusive based on an ill-defined sense of fear. While I am aware of a number of plots being stopped at various stages in their planning, I am not aware of a single plot being stopped by a sharp-eyed TSA employee at the airport screening level. I am aware of some plots being stopped by law enforcement, the intelligence communities, or passengers themselves. **Chessic Sense** , can you provide some cites for TSA stopping attacks through the screening process at airports? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/32 "2011-12-27T20:27:15Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Ah, that might have been it. So, the inconsistency I should rage at is the three TSA agents who allowed me to take the survival tool on the first three flights, and not the fourth one who confiscated it. > > For some reason, I’m thinking that’s even worse inconsistency. This is silly. Do you get pissy because three cops ignore you when you’re eight miles over the limit and the fourth one gives you a ticket? Security theater or not, you should know better than to try to get onto a plane with any sort of blade these days. Incidentally, as a vaguely Arab-looking male, you can all blow me. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/33 "2011-12-27T20:37:12Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Where did you carry this thingy when they found it? Was it in your wallet? Or just in your pocket which you had to dump in that plastic tray? Did they search your wallet?? It’s the size of a credit card. It fits perfectly into a little side pocket in my purse. It stays there. It’s visible on the X-ray scanner, and wasn’t taken away by any of the first three TSA agents from the first three of my four recent flights. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > This is silly. Do you get pissy because three cops ignore you when you’re eight miles over the limit and the fourth one gives you a ticket? > > Security theater or not, you should know better than to try to get onto a plane with any sort of blade these days. Dude, chill. I didn’t get pissy about any of it. I just asked the guy why the first three flights it was okay and the last one it wasn’t. He’s the one who got snotty with me, at which point I declined his offer to “speak to a supervisor.” Also, your analogy fails, as they are “supposed” to confiscate forbidden items from everybody, yes? Scissors, which are allowed, are blades. It’s the inconsistency that’s frustrating. Not so much that I freaked out in public and pitched a bitch, but that I mentioned it on a message board in a thread about inconsistency in the TSA application of regulations. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/34 "2011-12-27T20:40:14Z")
You’re a girl? ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/35 "2011-12-27T20:42:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You’re a girl? Last I checked. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/36 "2011-12-27T20:43:08Z")
> [@eman77](#): > > Sounds like an extreme case. This country is definitely going under. Oh wait [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/13/national/main20105429.shtml](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/13/national/main20105429.shtml) > > Problem solved. Now what? What’s next to complain about? I’ll go wallow in my ignorance, you can go wallow in your paranoia. I don’t think that pointing out an example of an unacceptable TSA practice that was stopped because people complained about it works very well as an argument against complaining about unacceptable TSA practices. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/37 "2011-12-27T20:43:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Last I checked. Huh. Your username always envoked a “big, hairy dude” mental image. Maybe with a flannel shirt and unibrow. Erm… carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/38 "2011-12-27T20:45:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Huh. Your username always envoked a “big, hairy dude” mental image. Maybe with a flannel shirt and unibrow. > > Erm… carry on. Thanks? 😃 I have a flannel shirt…somewhere. No unibrow, though. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/39 "2011-12-27T20:50:59Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > But since I know that the plane isn’t any safer than it was on September 10th, I’ll thank you to keep your invasive searches and strategic lack of consistency, thanks. Actually, there was one security measure which did improve airplane safety post-9/11, one which IIRC some airlines fought tooth and nail against doing - strengthening the cockpit doors. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/40 "2011-12-27T21:17:52Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > You people act like there aren’t aviation threats and plots all the god damned time that need to be stopped. Have we even gone a whole year without some sort of plot almost succeeding? Have we? Just going by Wikipedia, I found the following aviation-related terrorist attacks on US soil since 9/11: Aside from the Big One, 2001 also gave us the shoe bomber. Who was caught by other passengers while the plane was in flight. In 2002, a guy shot up a ticket counter at an airport - of course, that happened before he got to a TSA checkpoint. In 2006, a bomb plot involving planes headed from Heathrow to the US was broken up before anyone got near an airport, once again robbing the TSA of a chance for glory. But they did ban anyone from bringing liquids onto a plane. In 2007, a plot to blow up fuel tanks at JFK airport was foiled by undercover agents. The plot never made it past the planning stage. In 2009, a guy on a plane to Detroit from Amsterdam managed to set himself on fire trying to detonate an explosive on a plane before being subdued by (once again) other passengers. He wasn’t flying out of a US airport, though. In 2010, a tax protestor crashed his small plane into an IRS building, but again, that wasn’t a situation that the TSA could have prevented. And finally, in my favorite aviation-related terror plot, a guy in Massachusetts plotted to blow up the Pentagon using remote controlled model planes “packed” with explosives. Remarkably, this did not lead to the TSA setting up screening stations at hobby stores across the country. I couldn’t find any aviation-related terror incidents for the years 2003, 2004, 2005, or 2008. Admittedly, my search was somewhat cursory. So, over the last decade, the TSA has been in a position to catch exactly one terrorist. Which they failed to do. Meanwhile, good police work and reliable intelligence continue to actually keep us safe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387.md?page=3)