# Should the TSA have to be "consistent"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 26, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387 "2011-12-26T00:57:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/61 "2012-01-03T05:39:28Z")
> [@eman77](#): > > I just don’t understand why everyone interprets minor “invasions” as someone trying to steal our “freedom”. Strikes me as a bunch of whiny over reactors. We all have our limits, I guess. I don’t see why complaints count as over reacting. How else should we react to something we see as wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/62 "2012-01-03T07:20:42Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Crotch-patting grandmothers is not going to stop them. Indeed, _nothing_ will stop grandmothers, crotch patting least of all. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/63 "2012-01-03T12:40:07Z")
> [@eman77](#): > > My personal feeling is that this vague ideal has made us extremely touchy about a number of harmless issues. Entitled, loud, and proud about something that we can be just as relaxed about. > > I just don’t understand why everyone interprets minor “invasions” as someone trying to steal our “freedom”. Strikes me as a bunch of whiny over reactors. Being genitally groped by a stranger with no medical training and little idea of what he or she is actually looking for is not something to be “relaxed about”. Indeed, most cultures regard this kind of behavior as the extreme of offensiveness. The fact that this is all done in the effort to conduct “security theater”, i.e. present the pretense of security without the genuinte effect of it simply opens the door to nearly unlimited abuse. Once such boundaries are breached by utterly arbitrary rules, there is no argument against further intrustion. In reality, the most effective measures against a follow-on attack similar to the September 11 event have already been taken, i.e. securing cockpit doors. Confiscating cupcakes and groping granny are just handwaving to distract from the fact that the authorities do not know where the next threat is going to come from or how to deal with it effectively. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/64 "2012-01-03T13:32:28Z")
> [@eman77](#): > > I just don’t understand why everyone interprets minor “invasions” as someone trying to steal our “freedom”. Strikes me as a bunch of whiny over reactors. My SO has an ileostomy, a small piece of his small intestine which comes out through an opening in his abdomen. A small plastic bag is stuck onto his belly’s skin with adhesive, and liquified poo comes out the intestine and into the bag. Every month, we go to a support group for “ostomates”, people with ileostomies, colostomies and urostomies. You can imagine how those whiny over reactors felt when they read this story:[TSA pat-down leaves traveler covered in urine ‘I was absolutely humiliated,’ said bladder cancer survivor](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40291856/ns/travel-news/t/tsa-pat-down-leaves-traveler-covered-urine/#.TwMCWXpRAig) If that’d been my SO, it wouldn’t have been smelly but medically clean urine, that would have been liquid hazardous waste containing infectious e.coli. bacteria, all over him, the TSA agent, the floor you’re walking on, probably the luggage nearby… Yeah. Whiners. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/65 "2012-01-03T13:47:33Z")
> [@eman77](#): > > That’s the response I expected. And I think what this whole thread is about at it’s core. > > My personal feeling is that this vague ideal has made us extremely touchy about a number of harmless issues. Entitled, loud, and proud about something that we can be just as relaxed about. > > I just don’t understand why everyone interprets minor “invasions” as someone trying to steal our “freedom”. Strikes me as a bunch of whiny over reactors. Well, I think most of the arguments against the current system argue that it is inconvenient, invasive and most importantly: completely ineffective. I think people would put up with the first two if it actually acomplished anything other than making the less inquisitive in our nation feel more secure. But here’s the thing, America has let our irrational fear of terrorism (specifically dark-skinned, non-Christian terrorsim) erode our freedoms. We maintain secret prisons, we torture and we have recently introduced a bill that would allow for the indefinite detention of citizens without trial. Those things aren’t just mild inconveniences, they are fundamental deviations from our cultural values and they happened in the name of fear of the dark skinned non-Christian (and largely non-existent) terrorist ™. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/66 "2012-01-03T17:54:38Z")
> [@eman77](#): > > My personal feeling is that this vague ideal … And just when did rights enumerated in the Constitution of the US (not to mention Privacy articles in many states’ constitutions) become “vague ideal[s]”? > [@](#): > > The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. > [@](#): > > 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. And my favorite, more honored in the breach these days: > [@](#): > > The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. ---
**Author:** ![eman77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f04885/32.png) [@eman77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eman77)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/67 "2012-01-04T06:07:20Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > We all have our limits, I guess. I don’t see why complaints count as over reacting. How else should we react to something we see as wrong? True. Maybe my complaint should have it’s own thread. ---
**Author:** ![eman77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f04885/32.png) [@eman77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eman77)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/68 "2012-01-04T06:29:49Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > And just when did rights enumerated in the Constitution of the US (not to mention Privacy articles in many states’ constitutions) become “vague ideal[s]”? > > And my favorite, more honored in the breach these days: It’s clearly not vague to someone who sleeps with the CONSTITUTION!!! next to his bed. But give me a break if the average person knows much more than “hey, don’t touch my freedom”. > [@](#): > > My SO has an ileostomy, a small piece of his small intestine which comes out through an opening in his abdomen. A small plastic bag is stuck onto his belly’s skin with adhesive, and liquified poo comes out the intestine and into the bag. > > Every month, we go to a support group for “ostomates”, people with ileostomies, colostomies and urostomies. > > You can imagine how those whiny over reactors felt when they read this story: TSA pat-down leaves traveler covered in urine > ‘I was absolutely humiliated,’ said bladder cancer survivor > > If that’d been my SO, it wouldn’t have been smelly but medically clean urine, that would have been liquid hazardous waste containing infectious e.coli. bacteria, all over him, the TSA agent, the floor you’re walking on, probably the luggage nearby… > > Yeah. Whiners. My condolences to your SO. I would hope the TSA and your SO would be able to come up with an alternative arrangement to the routine pat down. But for everyone else who does not suffer from ileostomy, I still think they are whiners. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/69 "2012-01-04T08:08:34Z")
> [@eman77](#): > > True. Maybe my complaint should have it’s own thread. Probably. I think it’s a good subject for discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/70 "2012-01-04T11:59:57Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > It’s pretty silly to be confiscating damn cupcakes. Sounds to me like the TSA agent might have been hungry…and power tripping. Think it may be gel explosive? Fine. Give it a sniff test. Explosives do not smell like frosting. Problem solved. I was under the impression that at least one type of explosive _did_ smell like frosting- or, more specifically, marzipan. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/71 "2012-01-04T12:26:01Z")
> [@eman77](#): > > My condolences to your SO. I would hope the TSA and your SO would be able to come up with an alternative arrangement to the routine pat down. > > But for everyone else who does not suffer from ileostomy, I still think they are whiners. So besides the people with ostomies… …and besides the nursing mothers… …and besides the children under 12… …and besides those traveling with formula fed infants… …and besides the frequent travelers… …and besides the women… …and perhaps even besides the people bearing baked goods at Christmastime… (did I miss any other TSA policy/procedure changes implemented after consumer complaint and the TSA’s realization that they were stupid?) …besides all those people, we’re whiners. Got it. Thank you for your contributions to the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/72 "2012-01-06T04:04:55Z")
The problem with the TSA is that they are reacting after-the-fact to an infinite number of situations. It’s still in it’s infancy and they’re already starting to behave like a bunch of brown-shirts. They’re planning on monitoring train travel as well as other forms of transportation. It’s just a matter of time before we see road blocks pop up. Instead of reacting to each new situation after it occurs they should focus on potential terrorists before a new situation arises. It’s the person that commits a crime, not the tools used. That doesn’t mean we abandon common sense, it means we apply money and resources toward designed to find terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387/73 "2012-01-06T04:39:49Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > Israeli-style behavioral profiling is much more effective, but much more expensive. Has it actually been proven more effective? [This](http://thescienceofsecurity.org/reports.shtml) says otherwise, but the “we totally know a guy who got through by lying, like, for real” part at the end makes me wonder what they actually looked at: > [@](#): > > Some observers attribute the security successes of Ben Gurion International airport (in Israel) and El Al airlines to behavioral profiling rather than to the other multiple layers of security they employ. But to make such claims, observers would have to separate out and measure the effects of profiling policies by themselves, which they have yet to do. However, a recent article in Nature reviewing studies of human efforts to reliably detect ‘mal-intent’ in others concludes that the techniques are ineffective and unreliable. One of us even knows a person who - for research purposes - has successfully lied to Ben Gurion’s airport interrogators multiple times. The conclusion that airport questioners are the key layer of defense appears to be significantly overdrawn. I’m personally skeptical that “behavioral profiling” in airports works any better (or on different principles) than divining rods, but there doesn’t seem to be much data out there about how well it works in that kind of situation. (I’ll admit that I also think the Israeli model would be many times more intrusive. I’d rather be x-rayed and searched 20 times than be interrogated about my personal life, but I’m probably idiosyncratic there.) Of course, divining rods could end up being a great deterrent if they were _seen_ as being really effective, so even if behavioral profiling ends up being magical thinking, it could still work. Kind of. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-tsa-have-to-be-consistent/607387.md?page=3)