# Should the U.S. attack Hamas now? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059 "2004-03-24T02:44:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/21 "2004-03-24T19:55:28Z")
Binary D. Did you read the OP? Did you see the answers who start from the idea that the leadership of Hamas indeed threatened to “attack the USA”. Did you next read my posts and what is behind the link? If you did all of that, then why do you ask what I “try to acomplish here” other then give you what Hamas claims they did **not** say while everybody here seems to believe whatever the US government’s rethoric on the issue might be. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/22 "2004-03-24T19:59:46Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > I think it’s very fair to criticize the current and previous administration as well as the American people for ignoring Al Queda for as long as they did. The World Trade Center, the USS Cole, and several embassy bombings were all connected to them prior to 9/11. I think it would be stupid to ignore the threats of a large and motivated organization like Hamas. > > Marc Fair enough. Do we also get to criticize the current administration for not doing any better? ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/23 "2004-03-24T20:03:14Z")
WinstonS Are you saying that when a newschannel brings report of an interview with someone, that this newschannel must _not_ report on what the interviewed said, but must twist its report until it has nothing to do anymore with what the interviewed actually said upto the situtation that the newschanneld writes the opposite and fabricated version of what the interviewed said? If yes: why? Is it because the US government spreads that opposite version or because you like that opposite version? May I then suggest that you write to Al Jazeera to ask them why they report on what is said instead of bringing a falsified report on what is said. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/24 "2004-03-24T20:21:48Z")
\*\* Aldebaran \*\*, Perhaps I failed to be clear when I was asking my question. I will be glad to try again. I think that the disconnect came from a slight hijack on my part. To reiterate: My experience of this thread has been that the OP asked if we should attack Hamas, in light of September 11 ( **not** implying a ling between the two, you understand). Next a bunch of people came in and explained why this was a bad idea. So far, so good. Then, you arrive and (so far, within good debating manners) offer a cite that seems to dispute that Hamas has threatened the USA at all. Again, good enough. Where you start to loose me is what looks like your need to belittle others (I assume Americans, but am open to the idea that you are an equal opportunity belittler) with statements like this one: > [@Aldebaran](#): > > Enjoy the experience of getting less one sided informed and have once again the machinations of the US government exposed. I cannot believe that you are unaware of the insulting implications there. This is what prompted me to ask you what it is that you are trying to accomplish here. If, indeed, what you are after is to “tell the other side of the story” so to speak, and expose folks to broader sources of information than I would say that this is a worthy goal, but that the posts that you make are so insulting and abrasive that you are failing at that goal. If, on the other hand, you simply take any opportunity that presents itself to insult “USers”, why you are succeeding. To even further hijack (my apologies to the OP) let me ask you this: As I recall, you are a culturally plural person (in that you seem to have formative experience in both the Western and the Arab world). Avoiding blanket condemnation of the United States, what constructive solutions can you offer to the problem of terrorism? ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/25 "2004-03-24T20:42:49Z")
**Binarydrone, WinstonSmith** , I don’t think you’ll get the straight dope on your perfectly good questions from this particular poster: > **[A void has been filled: ladies and gentleman, Aldebaran!](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=192310)** > > I don’t open many Pit threads, but I wanted to be the first one to do so here. It’s been a long time since we’ve had a lunatic, left-wing nutcase frothing at the mouth and embarrassing legitimate left-wingers and giving lunatic, right-wing nutcases... > **[Aldebaran, If You Tried, Could You Be More Condescending?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=196135)** > > I don’t know if you’re being intentionally derisive or if it’s unitntentional. but you do seem to have a habit of assuming the worse about fellow posters and to address people in an inhospitable, condescending manner for no apparent reason. For... > **[A rose by any other name... (or, Aldebaran is a dickhead)](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=240413)** > > Re this Aldebaran dude. I don’t know why you guys keep trying to debate this guy, as if he were capable of anything resembling a rational, reasoned discussion. When I first came across his posts I thought he was a very intelligent individual with,... > **[Aldebaran, for killing a hamster.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=245922)** > > Aldebaran, your answer to Anal Scurvy’s question about the Ottoman system of land ownership amounted to: I, too, would like to know the answer, …but I don’t… … and it’s really early in the morning here… … so I won’t actually post anything... Last one was started all of three days ago. He’s declared he’ll no longer respond to my posts, so at least I can proceed. I am glad that Hamas saw sense–taking on the US directly would be total suicide. The flowery language that these guys use doesn’t help us understand them any better, but I understand that’s an Arabic style for certain types of people. Too bad they don’t realize that the Palestinians have the good will of much of the world, including people like me who also want Israel to have peace, but are squandering it by blowing up random people like that. ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/26 "2004-03-24T21:15:52Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > I cannot believe that you are unaware of the insulting implications there. This is what prompted me to ask you what it is that you are trying to accomplish here. If, indeed, what you are after is to “tell the other side of the story” so to speak, and expose folks to broader sources of information than I would say that this is a worthy goal, but that the posts that you make are so insulting and abrasive that you are failing at that goal. If, on the other hand, you simply take any opportunity that presents itself to insult “USers”, why you are succeeding. **Binarydrone** , you have very nicely enunciated my objection to Aldebaran’s post. **Aldebaran** , it may be that nobody from Hamas officially threatened the US. It may also be that somebody did, and was quietly rebuffed internally, or that somebody did and their authority was misconstrued. There are many explanations for the State Department’s warning that don’t require an evil US conspiracy to foment disinformation. What truly amazed me is your willingness to accept anything coming out of the US government as “machinations” while apparently swallowing without question statements from Hamas such as: > [@](#): > > “This is a clear American lie to cover up the US involvement as it gave the green light for the assassination of Shaikh Yasin.” ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/27 "2004-03-24T21:23:10Z")
I am truly alarmed by the turn of events…for the first time senior Israeli officials are making sounds about getting rid of Arafat! This would truly “open the doors of hell”-the nightmare scenario I see: -Sharon gives approval to murder Arafat. Arafat is blown upin his compound, with his immediate staff. -After what remains are buried, all of the Palestinian organizations join together, and announce their alliance with Al-Queda! -prepositioned bombs go off allover Israel…bus stations, restaurants, libraries, hospitals,power stations, dams,etc. THOUSANDS of people are killed; the Isaraeli economy shuts down aspeople cannot workor travel. -The Israeli governemnt announces that it will shoot on sight any saboteurs-hundreds ofinnocent palestinians are killed as well. -An armeduprising begins-thousands more are killed. Iran announces that it has nuclear weapons , and will USE THEM against Israel! -Jerusalem, Haifa, and Tel Aviv are destroyedin nuclear explosions. Horrible! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/28 "2004-03-24T21:55:17Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > So you claim that the US government - always so clear-voyant and so incredible “informed” and unbelievable “honest” in sharing with the rest of the world their “information” - knows better what the Hamas leadership said then the Hamas leadership itself. Alde, perhaps you should open your view a bit to include the possibility that there was a bogus press statement circulated yesterday, instead of leaping to the conclusion that the United States lied and made up everything. I have an AP story from the wires dated March 22 that reads, in part: > [@](#): > > “The Zionists didn’t carry out their operation without getting the consent of the terrorist American Administration, and it must take responsibility for this crime,” **Hamas said in a statement faxed to The Associated Press.** > > “All the Muslims of the world will be honored to join in on the retaliation for this crime,” the statement said. > > The threat against the United States would represent a change of tactics for the militant group, which has always said its fight was with Israel and not with the United States. It very well may be that the AP reported on an improperly attributed press release, which was then renounced by Hamas in the Al Jazeera interview that you cited. You can’t just come to a conclusion that Americans lied about this because there are conflicting stories in different news sources. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/29 "2004-03-24T22:24:05Z")
Absolutely! In furtherance of that end, we should invade Belgium. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/30 "2004-03-24T22:44:47Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I am truly alarmed by the turn of events…for the first time senior Israeli officials are making sounds about getting rid of Arafat! This would truly “open the doors of hell”-the nightmare scenario I see: > -Sharon gives approval to murder Arafat. Arafat is blown upin his compound, with his immediate staff. > -After what remains are buried, all of the Palestinian organizations join together, and announce their alliance with Al-Queda! > -prepositioned bombs go off allover Israel…bus stations, restaurants, libraries, hospitals,power stations, dams,etc. THOUSANDS of people are killed; the Isaraeli economy shuts down aspeople cannot workor travel. > -The Israeli governemnt announces that it will shoot on sight any saboteurs-hundreds ofinnocent palestinians are killed as well. > -An armeduprising begins-thousands more are killed. > Iran announces that it has nuclear weapons , and will USE THEM against Israel! > -Jerusalem, Haifa, and Tel Aviv are destroyedin nuclear explosions. > Horrible! What the heck are you talking about? Am I being whooshed here? There have often been serious Israeli suggestions that Arafat should be killed, including a particularly big brouhaha only a year or so ago. Palestinian groups don’t all like Arafat, and it would be extremely hard for them to work together, let alone with al Qaeda (note spelling). What “prepositioned bombs”? What “armed uprising”? Palestinians are already rising up all over the place, and they’re using about as many arms as they’ve got. What Iranian nuclear weapons? Hell, I’m a pessimist about these things, but do you have any idea how crazy all that crap sounds? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/31 "2004-03-24T23:14:47Z")
Great OP. I think some people were trying to obfuscate the issue. We have high profile hearings right now on how did we allow 9-11 to happen, with both parties pointing fingers at each other; at the same time, another even more dangerous terrorist org. threatens US and nobody pays any attention! The question is crystal clear: considering what we learned from 9-11, what shall we do when another powerful terrorist organization threatens massive terror against us? Sam Stone says, “The U.S. should do nothing against Hamas unless Hamas acts first.” Zagadka says, “Slight difference - AQ has attacked us before. Several times.” So we shall wait and see? If they do something, however small, then we act. But what if they do something really big right away? Implications are also crystal clear: if so many still believe that there still are great many reasons to avoid responding with force, even after 9-11, then perhaps we can understand why Clinton and Bush were so reserved to use force before 9-11? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/32 "2004-03-24T23:27:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Absolutely! In furtherance of that end, we should invade Belgium. I proposed long time ago that we need to invade Belgium and search for **Aldebaran**. While searching we can take frequent breaks and refresh ourselves with all that fantastic beer they make over there. And I know for sure how our soldiers will react when peacenics start chanting, “No Blood for Beer!” ---
**Author:** ![legion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/838e76/32.png) [@legion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legion)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/33 "2004-03-25T01:07:44Z")
> [@Plan B](#): > > Hamas has made it clear that they intend to attack the U.S. Right now the administration is being raked over the coals for their failure to do something to prevent 9/11. Should we attack Hamas now to keep them from carrying out their threats? Oh how I pine the loss of MAD! A clunky, 60’s OS, sure, but one choke full of checks and balances. We now have a 21st century, uranium depleted, laser guided, stealthy OS and what’s the best we can come up with? "That guy who has no nukes, no army, no navy, no air force, no spy satillites said he is gonna kick our arse…I know, let’s attack, attack, attack? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/34 "2004-03-25T02:14:59Z")
> [@legion](#): > > We now have a 21st century, uranium depleted, laser guided, stealthy OS and what’s the best we can come up with? "That guy who has no nukes, no army, no navy, no air force, no spy satillites said he is gonna kick our arse…I know, let’s attack, attack, attack? I understand you are paraphrasing, but who? Everyone in this thread was against attacking Hamas, except two people who wanted to attack Belgium (one of those was just a beer-belly) and one “Muslim scholar” who is attacking US all the time, but he only uses words, so we let him get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/35 "2004-03-25T02:44:12Z")
Maybe the OP should have been: Who is Israel going to kill next? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/36 "2004-03-25T03:01:55Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > You think Israel would strenuously object to letting America bomb the living fark out of them? Yes, I definitely do. Israel wouldn’t like to have foreign militaries (which they can’t control, regardless how friendly they are) in action within their borders. Besides, if they think whatever bombing should be done, they have all the means needed to do it themselves, and if they they think it shouldn’t be done, they won’t let someone else do it. So I can’t find a reason why they would allow such an attack. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/37 "2004-03-25T03:32:43Z")
I just wanted to take a moment to say how pleased I am with the responses to this thread. Lots of good ideas, not too much flaming. Quite a few points I wouldn’t have thought of on my own and didn’t read in the media. I like the tone of this board. Hope I can contribute equivalent words of wisdom on other topics in the future. ---
**Author:** ![legion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/838e76/32.png) [@legion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legion)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/38 "2004-03-25T04:25:37Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > I understand you are paraphrasing, but who? Everyone in this thread was against attacking Hamas, except two people who wanted to attack Belgium (one of those was just a beer-belly) and one “Muslim scholar” who is attacking US all the time, but he only uses words, so we let him get away with it. I didn’t paraphrase. I quoted the enire OP. I don’t understand why you feel it necessary to explain to me who has posted for or against the OP. Also, your phrase “So **we** let him get away with it” sits badly with me. Who are the " **we** you speak of? Is there some kind of SDMB elite club that you enjoy and I do not? ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/39 "2004-03-25T04:29:52Z")
It seems to me that the Israelis are doing a perfectly satisfactory job of attacking Hammas. If they think they need the United States’ help in the effort I’m reasonably sure that they will let that be known. In the meantime, we seem to have out plate pretty full. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059/40 "2004-03-25T05:40:25Z")
> [@legion](#): > > I didn’t paraphrase. I quoted the enire OP. OP asked, “Should we attack Hamas now to keep them from carrying out their threats?” You answered, “That guy who has no nukes, no army, no navy, no air force, no spy satillites said he is gonna kick our arse…I know, let’s attack, attack, attack?” Please explain the connection. P.S. “We” is the royal “I”. Kings use it all the time. I am King, I think… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-attack-hamas-now/236059.md?page=3)