# Should the U.S. grant asylum to Cuban terrorist Luis Posada Carriles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 9, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318 "2005-05-09T20:39:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/21 "2005-05-10T14:50:28Z")
> [@furt](#): > > A workable definition would be someone who violently attacks civilian targets to advance a cause. “Freedom fighters” would be people who attack military or at least governmental targets. It’s not a difficult distinction to draw. I dunno – that standard might make a non-terrorist of Timothy McVeigh. That is, he could argue (if he weren’t dead) that his real target was governmental – the Oklahoma City federal courthouse and its employees – and all the other civilians killed in the bombing were just “collateral damage.” ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/22 "2005-05-10T17:08:24Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Sadly, I stand corrected. You’re irremediably optimistic, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/23 "2005-05-10T19:03:30Z")
> [@furt](#): > > The US has said [they won’t give asylum](http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/11556723.htm); other than “Bush is evil,” is there any reason not to believe them? You mean besides their (mis)statements of the last five years? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/24 "2005-05-10T19:30:46Z")
> [@furt](#): > > The US has said [they won’t give asylum](http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/11556723.htm) . . . According to that link, there’s a possibility extradition would mean death for Posada: > [@](#): > > Eduardo Soto, Posada’s Coral Gables immigration attorney, said a legal strategy to defend his client against a Venezuelan extradition request was being drawn up. > > Key arguments against extradition, he said, include: a 15-year statute of limitations in the extradition treaty has expired; Venezuela lacks jurisdiction because the plane exploded off Barbados; Posada was acquitted twice of charges in Venezuela; **and Venezuela may extradite him to Cuba, where he would face a firing squad.** > > In Washington, a top State Department official suggested that Posada does not deserve asylum in the United States – the first time a senior American official has publicly spoken against granting protection to the exile militant. > > The United States ‘‘has no interest in giving quarter to someone who has committed criminal acts,’’ said Roger Noriega, the top State Department official for Western Hemisphere affairs. ``We are a country that respects the rule of law.’’ > > Noriega also voiced doubts Posada is here. > > ‘‘I don’t even know that he is in the United States,’’ said Noriega. > > But Soto said Tuesday night that he has seen his client in South Florida. He told a news conference last month Posada sneaked into the United States in March through the Mexican border. Which makes Posada an illegal alien, but asylum-seekers usually are until their status is regularized. European countries won’t extradite any suspect to the U.S. without a guarantee the suspect will not be executed, but I’ve never heard of the U.S. setting that condition. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/25 "2005-05-11T01:32:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > European countries won’t extradite any suspect to the U.S. without a guarantee the suspect will not be executed, but I’ve never heard of the U.S. setting that condition. It would be kind of hypocritical for the U.S. not to allow extradition because of the possibility of a death sentence if he would face a death sentence here for the same crime, no? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/26 "2005-05-11T01:37:03Z")
If we protect him, then we have shown ourselves to be liars and hypocrites of the worst sort. We “declared war on terrorism”. We invaded countries to “fight terror”. At least that was one of the official lines. Fight terror anywhere and everywhere. Nowhere to hide. We’re comin’ ta getcha. I’m comin’ and hell’s comin’ with me. Smash puny terrorists. Blah blah blah blah blah. If we now protect one, **for any reason** , then we should hang our heads in shame. We will have proved to the world that no, our words don’t mean a damn thing, and we are even worse than we are accused of being. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/27 "2005-05-11T01:39:38Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > It would be kind of hypocritical for the U.S. not to allow extradition because of the possibility of a death sentence if he would face a death sentence here for the same crime, no? To say the least. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/28 "2005-05-11T03:22:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > According to that link, there’s a possibility extradition would mean death for Posada. We can only hope. I’d be very, very surprised if the looming death penalty were a grounds for denying extradition. Is there any precedent for the US ever doing that? It’s not like he’s an escaped poliical prisoner. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/29 "2005-05-11T11:19:27Z")
This seems like the opportune time to bring up our mollycoddling of the terrorist organization the Mojahedin-e-Khalq. A presidential advisor even raised funds for them. Freedom fighters indeed. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/30 "2005-05-11T11:20:35Z")
> [@furt](#): > > It’s not like he’s an escaped poliical prisoner. In the eyes of some, that’s **exactly** what he is. Who do you think is giving Posada shelter in southern Florida? Some radical Cuban exile group, I have no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/31 "2005-05-12T00:39:07Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > This is quite possible. Particularly if he ever helped the CIA. The BBC is saying he did: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4535661.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4535661.stm) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/32 "2005-05-12T02:16:27Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > The BBC is saying he did: > > [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4535661.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4535661.stm) > [@](#): > > The documents, released by George Washington University’s National Security Archive, show that Mr Posada, now in his 70s, was on the CIA payroll from the 1960s until mid-1976. > > One FBI report quoted a confidential source as saying that Mr Posada was one of several people who met at least twice at a hotel in Caracas, allegedly to discuss bombing a Cubana airlines plane. > > The report recommended that no action be taken on the information, as it would compromise its source. The FBI knew an airliner was going to be bombed and didn’t try to stop it? :eek: And after that, the U.S. government was willing to use Posada again, in Nicaragua? ---
**Author:** ![yo\_no\_se](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b487fb/32.png) [@yo\_no\_se](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yo_no_se)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/33 "2005-05-12T13:49:08Z")
> [@yo no se](#): > > What if he was a CIA operative? Bingo. And just who knows how tangled the woven web be? So many fingers and so many pies, it is inevitable the U.S. finds itself in some pretty tight spots, from time to time, so that it cannot easily do what it wants or what is right. When THAT happens usually there will be very little in terms of formal response, in hopes it just goes away. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/34 "2005-05-12T14:32:49Z")
The following article explains the Bush Administration’s position quite nicely: [**Bush, Posada & Terrorism Hypocrisy**](http://www.consortiumnews.com/2005/051005.html) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/35 "2005-05-12T14:46:08Z")
Its like the very old joke: “One of our intelligence agents just shot one of their filthy spies!” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/36 "2005-05-12T17:38:00Z")
It appears the Admin’s response is do deny knowledge that Posada in the U.S. and to not even try to find out whether he is. What are the Venezuelans gonna do? Hypothetical: If the Venezuelans were to do with Posada as the Israelis did with Adolf Eichmann when he was hiding out in Argentina – insert secret agents to kidnap him and take him back to stand trial – and assuming they succeeded – what would the U.S. do about that? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/37 "2005-05-12T18:06:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Hypothetical: If the Venezuelans were to do with Posada as the Israelis did with Adolf Eichmann when he was hiding out in Argentina – insert secret agents to kidnap him and take him back to stand trial – and assuming they succeeded – what would the U.S. do about that? Either ignore it and try to keep Posada’s CIA ties from becoming general public knowledge, or at the most, throw a diplomatic tantrum. But there won’t be much public sympathy for a terrorist so there wouldn’t be sanctions or anything. Maybe threats of them, but I highly doubt anything would come of it. ---
**Author:** ![yo\_no\_se](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b487fb/32.png) [@yo\_no\_se](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yo_no_se)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/38 "2005-05-12T20:20:50Z")
If Castro/Chavez somehow succeeded in finding him and dragging him out, my guess would be quiet out of D.C. and a temper tantrum out of Miami. Should he spill any stinky beans… then it’s deny, deny, deny out of D.C. ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/39 "2005-05-13T06:23:38Z")
Um… is this a serious question? It’s understood the 'states are a bit loopy on certain things, especially when it comes to ‘terrorism’. The U.S. declared war on Iraq when everyone knew their (first, and even second) reasons were crap. Here in Canada, heated words were delivered regarding a border that had let none of the accused individuals through. The U.S. government extradited a Canadian citizen to Syria for it’s 3rd-party-torture programme, and if someone ends up flying a light plane in the same time zone as Washington everyone is told to run away. I know nothing about this Carriles, but you’re saying this same institution is willing to entertain harbouring someone who ‘bombed a Cuban airliner over Venezuela, killing 76 people’??? There aren’t enough :eek: in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318/40 "2005-05-13T06:31:18Z")
Well huh. Ever since the new board format was introduced, I’ve occasionally opened a tab for GD instead of my desired forum, GQ. If the general posting theme is different here, feel free to ignore my last post, but I’m keeping my newfound incredulity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-u-s-grant-asylum-to-cuban-terrorist-luis-posada-carriles/401318.md?page=3)