# should the uk become the us? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 27, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634 "2003-11-27T23:14:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/21 "2003-11-28T06:17:23Z")
We are sort of headed for a monarchy of rule by two families- Bush and Clinton. It is very likely that Hillary and Jeb will both be President at some point. Britain should remain independent. Joining the EU or the US would mean giving up a lot of control over your internal affairs. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/22 "2003-11-28T06:26:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xtisme \* > \*\*We’ll take it!! Woohoo!! God save the queen! Can I be an Earl or something??? > > -XT \*\* Pffft. We already have thousands of ‘Earls’ in the South… ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/23 "2003-11-28T06:56:10Z")
I’m really not sure how serious the O.P. was, but, as regards the royal lot - yes - you U.S. bods are more than welcome to them. THough they have been fairly entertaining of late, I suppose). ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/24 "2003-11-28T07:32:58Z")
The U.S. has already offered to extend North American free trade policies to Britain. That is the model for what you’re more likely to see - the Anglosphere pulling more tightly together in a series of treaties and pacts, much like the EU is doing. If Chirac insists on molding the EU into a rival to U.S. power rather than as an ally, the natural response of non-EU western nations would be to pull together as well. They won’t be enemies, but rival spheres of influence. Kind of like the Democrats and Republicans writ large. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/25 "2003-11-28T07:38:50Z")
Adolescence is something a nation should only endure once. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/26 "2003-11-28T11:12:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrainGlutton \* > \*\*Ulster \*\* The province of Ulster contains 6 counties of Northern Ireland and 3 of the Republic of Ireland - this would cause some diplomatic problems… ---
**Author:** ![Already\_in\_Use](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Already\_in\_Use](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Already_in_Use)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/27 "2003-11-28T11:13:45Z")
I’ll go over there and conquer the UK myself if it means you can help us vote Bush out of office. 😃 (Time to start swimming…) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/28 "2003-11-28T11:21:31Z")
Oh dear, this question is rather like opening one of those Christmas presents, you know the ones, a purple and green sweater from a well-meaning auntie who simply doesn’t understand you at all; _someone, somewhere_ must like this kind of stuff and you don’t want to offend her, but there’s not a chance in hell that you’ll wear the sweater. “Why yes auntie… Join the USA, it’s…err… nice… thank you… what… a kind… thought… No, I don’t need to try it on… I’m sure it fits just… fine” ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/29 "2003-11-28T11:33:04Z")
Hehehe **Mangetout**. Nice image. THing is, I think I’d _prefer_ the purple and green sweater! ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/30 "2003-11-28T11:33:18Z")
Can I be the Duke of Hazzard? ---
**Author:** ![kris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@kris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kris)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/31 "2003-11-28T12:35:55Z")
Why does Britain need to join a larger political unity like the EU or the US. I have no quams with free trade in Europe or joining NAFTA but why do people think that Britain is uncapible of soverign rule? We have been capible of ruling ourselves since 1066 and we also ran the largest empire in the history of man for a time. I am not a fan of the EU but at the same time I would not like to join the US mainly for the second amendment (guns etc). Chris. (oh and before you lot get started; when I say “history of man” IT IS AN EXPRESSION I am not snubbing all you women out there. And before you go on about the comment on the empire I am not saying it was a good thing I am just pointing out a basic fact that Britain had a say in how a quarter of the world was ruled which backs up my point that we are capible of governing ourselves, let alone others). ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/32 "2003-11-28T13:27:10Z")
WHOOOOOOSH!! Aw, come on, join us and you too can have a McDonald’s on every corner, malls filled with cool stuff, and American TV shows and movies as far as the eye can see! …what? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/33 "2003-11-28T13:55:20Z")
_Czarcasm, Duke of Url_ Has a nice ring to it, don’tcha think? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![sirtonyh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@sirtonyh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sirtonyh)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/34 "2003-11-28T14:03:38Z")
National relations used to be stregthened by marriage between royalties. Now considering there is, fortunately, no royalty in the US the dude in the office will have to do. Minister: Do you, Dubya, take Lizzie to be your… Dubya: Y’all bet your sweet ass I do ---
**Author:** ![JohnnyYen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnnyYen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnyYen)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/35 "2003-11-28T14:05:02Z")
Surely if the US wanted to take over the UK, all they’d have to do would be revoke the Declaration of Independence? British laws passed since then would mean we had to give y’all full citizenship, and with your numerical superiority you could vote the current house, senate and state governors into the House of Commons, gaining an automatic huge majority. Wonder how it would work politically? I can see the Tories being quite willing to merge with the Republicans, but even given Blair’s lurches right, he and his party are still several miles left of the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/36 "2003-11-28T14:06:24Z")
We are becoming american. > **[Britain 'close behind US' on obesity rates](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2003/nov/11/health.medicineandhealth1)** > > More than 40% of men and women in the UK could be obese within a single generation, the influential International Obesity Taskforce will warn at a conference today. Owl (doing his bit for the americanisation of Britain) ---
**Author:** ![Planet\_of\_the\_Shapes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Planet\_of\_the\_Shapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Planet_of_the_Shapes)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/37 "2003-11-28T14:23:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MC Master of Ceremonies \* > \*\*No, I think that the USA should admit that they were wrong about all that ‘declaration of indpendence’-malarkey and join the United Kingdom as part of an expanded Rutland. \*\* Nah, we wouldn’t want them joining the UK proper because the House of Commons isn’t big enough to fit in all the extra MPs that would create. What we could do is make them a British Crown Dependency, maybe give them a devolved parliament if they start making a fuss about representation again. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/38 "2003-11-28T14:27:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Planet of the Shapes \* > \*\*Nah, we wouldn’t want them joining the UK proper because the House of Commons isn’t big enough to fit in all the extra MPs that would create. What we could do is make them a British Crown Dependency, maybe give them a devolved parliament if they start making a fuss about representation again. \*\* We should give 'em a Govenor General with feathers in his hat and shiny shoes. And a few district commisioners for the more primitive parts like San Fancisco and New York. I’d keep their national anthem though - ours is a bit of a dirge and they think its a hymn. ---
**Author:** ![Planet\_of\_the\_Shapes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Planet\_of\_the\_Shapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Planet_of_the_Shapes)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/39 "2003-11-28T14:38:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JohnnyYen \* > \*\*Surely if the US wanted to take over the UK, all they’d have to do would be revoke the Declaration of Independence? British laws passed since then would mean we had to give y’all full citizenship, and with your numerical superiority you could vote the current house, senate and state governors into the House of Commons, gaining an automatic huge majority. > > Wonder how it would work politically? I can see the Tories being quite willing to merge with the Republicans, but even given Blair’s lurches right, he and his party are still several miles left of the Democrats. \*\* Heh heh. While i don’t think it would work like that its an interesting thought… The trouble is, all of the US laws would be nulled, and British law would be valid. This means that the US would then have to set up an NHS, ban guns, start collecting VAT etc, until the laws are changed. The new American MPs would have a massive majority in Parliament and could start repealing British laws and replacing them with US ones but its going to take them quite a while to replace hundreds of years of legislation… Additionally all of the House of Lords would still be British, and they could slow down the process even further, although i guess one of the first things the Americans MPs would do is amend the Parliament Act to stop them doing that. Regarding the parties, the Tories and Labour would probably join the Democrats as their left wing fringe group, while the lib dems would be regarded as some sort of lunatic extreme left wing party… ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634/40 "2003-11-28T14:51:25Z")
> [@](#): > > should the uk become the us? _Eventually_, yes. Genuine pan-European democracy would signal a sea change in people putting aside the petty, juvenile nation state for the common good, and should occur within the next 20 years. The democratic federalisation of the United States of Europe and America, with co-ordinated local government, would further be a truly responsible “think globally, act locally” paradigm. Next century is optimistic. If we have not achieved an entire world democracy within 300 years, we’ll have been going too slow. USE or USA _first_ for the UK? As one with no little experience of all three, it occurs to me that most people who think the UK has more in common with the US than Europe change their tune very quickly when they actually spend any significant _time_ in America. _Si vous pouvez lire ceci, vous devriez le garder à vous-même en Amerique._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-uk-become-the-us/215634.md?page=3)