# Should the United Negro College Fund turn down the gift from the Koch brothers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 6, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199 "2014-06-06T14:09:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/221 "2014-06-18T03:20:40Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Only you are confused about that, again, Greenland is in the Arctic, it is part of it, you told us that Greenland still ain’t the Arctic. > > The straw man here is to claim that we said that Greenland \*\*is \*\*the Arctic. Drop it or the only thing you get is that you are giving us evidence that you not only fail to pay attention at the links and the evidence but also that you do not pay attention to what I and others are actually writing. > > The point that you are trying to still avoid is that the ice over the arctic ocean will not do much if it melts, because it is over the ocean, the ice over Greenland is a different thing. And it is still in the Arctic. (post shortened) A portion of Greenland is IN the Arctic Circle. You did get that part correct. There are several other nations in the Arctic Circle also. Greenland still ain’t the Arctic. If you were to compare a picture of Greenland and a picture of the Arctic, you should be able to tell them apart. Once again, the HowStuffWorks climatologists discussed polar ice melt separately from Greenland ice melt. I asked about polar ice melt and you responded with your Greenland strawman. It’s bizarre to suggest that I was avoiding polar ice melt by asking about polar ice melt. You were the one who wanted to talk about Greenland. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/222 "2014-06-18T03:37:08Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > A portion of Greenland is IN the Arctic Circle. You did get that part correct. There are several other nations in the Arctic Circle also. > > Greenland still ain’t the Arctic. > > If you were to compare a picture of Greenland and a picture of the Arctic, you should be able to tell them apart. > > Once again, the HowStuffWorks climatologists discussed polar ice melt separately from Greenland ice melt. I asked about polar ice melt and you responded with your Greenland strawman. It’s bizarre to suggest that I was avoiding polar ice melt by asking about polar ice melt. You were the one who wanted to talk about Greenland. :rolleyes: I said that Greenland is **in** the Arctic, your straw man is to insist that I’m saying that Greenland **is the** Arctic. Indeed, you are only speaking nonsense, so much about giving confidence to your side. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/223 "2014-06-18T03:52:00Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I said that Greenland is **in** the Arctic, your straw man is to insist that I’m saying that Greenland **is the** Arctic. Indeed, you are only speaking nonsense, so much about giving confidence to your side. I said that Greenland ain’t the Arctic. You objected to that statement. Greenland still ain’t the Arctic and the Arctic still ain’t Greenland. All of which does nothing to create confidence in the zealotry that promotes the man-made-CO2-is-evil theory. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/224 "2014-06-18T04:01:29Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I said that Greenland ain’t the Arctic. You objected to that statement. By saying that Greenland is in the Arctic. and linking to a different site from “Howstuffworks” that reported what would happen if the ice in Greenland melted. > [@doorhinge](#): > > Greenland still ain’t the Arctic and the Arctic still ain’t Greenland. And no one is saying that is a problem, the problem was that it was done to ignore the melt of the ice in the Arctic, and **Greenland is a part of it**. That part that will affect the ocean rise. The rest of the ice over the Arctic ocean is not as important on that. > [@doorhinge](#): > > All of which does nothing to create confidence in the zealotry that promotes the man-made-CO2-is-evil theory. No, it only demonstrates that you are the one losing confidence (Oh well, too late, it was already lost with the ones that are scientists too, you are invited to the Pit to see how impressive your “Greenland still ain’t the Arctic” really was.) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=724652&page=2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=724652&page=2) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/225 "2014-06-18T04:21:01Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > By saying that Greenland is in the Arctic. and linking to a different site from “Howstuffworks” that reported what would happen if the ice in Greenland melted. Which did not and does not change the truth of my statement that Greenland ain’t the Arctic. You can spin your reaction any way you wish. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/226 "2014-06-18T04:32:36Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Which did not and does not change the truth of my statement that Greenland ain’t the Arctic. You can spin your reaction any way you wish. Nah, it is clear that the context shows that you said that as a reply of the increase that we will get if the ice over Greenland, that is in the Arctic, melted. In the end, your reply was meaningless and useless as it did not deny or contradicted the point that the ice melt over land is accelerating, the ice that is over the Arctic ocean is (for the 100th time) not a very important factor of the expected ocean rise, but the one over Greenland is. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/227 "2014-06-18T04:40:44Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Nah, it is clear that the context shows that you said that as a reply of the increase that we will get if the ice over Greenland, that is in the Arctic, melted. > > In the end, your reply was meaningless and useless as it did not deny or contradicted the point that the ice melt over land is accelerating, the ice that is over the Arctic ocean is (for the 100th time) not a very important factor of the expected ocean rise, but the one over Greenland is. Which explains why you wanted to discuss Greenland ice melt and didn’t answer my question. You wanted to answer the question that you thought I should have asked. But it doesn’t change my statement that Greenland ain’t the Arctic. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/228 "2014-06-18T04:46:02Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Which explains why you wanted to discuss Greenland ice melt and didn’t answer my question. You wanted to answer the question that you thought I should have asked. Everyone can see that the question was answered. And as it includes Greenland it could not be avoided, as much as you want it. > [@doorhinge](#): > > But it doesn’t change my statement that Greenland ain’t the Arctic. It doesn’t change that it was a meaningless stall. And an attempt at confusing the issue, clearly we did not claim that Greenland was the whole Arctic, your straw man still stands. Again, the ice melt over land is accelerating, the ice that is over the Arctic ocean is not a very important factor of the expected ocean rise, but the one over Greenland is. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/229 "2014-07-12T15:45:38Z")
BUMP to note that AFSCME has [cut off](http://nypost.com/2014/07/10/koch-brother-grant-halts-union-support-for-united-negro-college-fund/) financial support for the UNCF because of its acceptance of the Koch grant. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/230 "2014-10-17T13:28:58Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Anyway, I hope Dopers [watch the new Robert Greenwald documentary](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=robert+greenwald+new+documentary) if they haven’t already. > …They are major financeer for many right-wing “think tanks”, political campaigns, strings-attached grants to schools, etc. etc. For them an occasional no-strings-attached grant is pocket change publicity. > > Unlike their father, who was a shrill John Birch voice that would almost make Ron Paul look like a centrist, the brothers are smarter than Romney and wouldn’t say certain things on microphone. > > However, they have certainly advocated for segregation in North Carolina’s Wake County. (Even in N.C., school district voters fought back and removed the segregationist directors.) And one ran for President on a campaign to abolish public schools, which is clear code for “our children don’t have to go school with yours.” > > See the film. In prior threads it was contested whether Charles or David Koch followed in their father’s footsteps and joined the John Birch Society. [It’s come out that Charles had a lifetime membership in the John Birch Society](http://www.progressive.org/news/2014/07/187769/his-dad-charles-koch-was-bircher-new-documents) until he left when he “had become enamored with a more anarchical expression of his attachment to unregulated capitalism that at its root opposes government action…” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199.md?page=11)