# Should the United Negro College Fund turn down the gift from the Koch brothers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 6, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199 "2014-06-06T14:09:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/61 "2014-06-07T01:16:12Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > If you strongly object to the views of the Koch brothers or simply object to their position on the global warming/climate change non-sense, then you should reject any money that the Koch brothers offer you for posting on the internet. Declaring climate change to be “nonsense” in light of scientific evidence seems to support the success of the Koch brothers’ disinformation campaign, and the incorrect hyphenation of the word seems symptomatic of the more generalized information deficit that, frankly, characterizes all your other posts on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![C6541](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90db22/32.png) [@C6541](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C6541)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/62 "2014-06-07T01:33:17Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The thread is about whether the UNCF and Catholic University of America should take money from the Koch brothers. If you strongly object to the views of the Koch brothers or simply object to their position on the global warming/climate change non-sense, then you should reject any money that the Koch brothers offer you for posting on the internet. If they should ever offer you money for posting on the internet. Do you even read threads when you post? I explicitly stated I had no criticism of the UNCF taking money from the Koch brothers. Your entire post is a giant red herring. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/63 "2014-06-07T11:06:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > How else would you describe denialism? Wait…(AGW) denialism is anti science rather than an alternate opinion, however ignorant? Without the opportunity to challenge prevailing thought, wouldn’t we still be teaching epicycles? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/64 "2014-06-07T13:28:11Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Wait…(AGW) denialism is anti science rather than an alternate opinion, however ignorant? Yes. It requires dismissing rather than embracing data, in a thought process driven by the desired result. If you think science is a matter of opinion, that is a statement of ignorance in itself. > [@](#): > > Without the opportunity to challenge prevailing thought, wouldn’t we still be teaching epicycles? We’d still be pretending there isn’t a problem, for one thing. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/65 "2014-06-07T14:20:12Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > I believe they should as they have. Non-profits that depend upon fund raising shouldn’t look gift horses in the mouth. > > But, as I pointed out in the OP, many people have criticized past recipients of contributions from the Koch Brothers, as the receiver of ill gotten gains. Many people here at the SDMB have opined that the Koch’s are morally bankrupt, should be locked up, etc. etc. Mr. Rodgers had critics too. Is there anyone who doesn’t have critics? If people decry the ethics of big business it’s probably because they don’t have a lot of experience with small businesses, that’s what my experiences have shown me. And the Koch brothers criticism isn’t particularly strong. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/66 "2014-06-07T23:08:21Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Yes. It requires dismissing rather than embracing data, in a thought process driven by the desired result. If you think science is a matter of opinion, that is a statement of ignorance in itself. > > We’d still be pretending there isn’t a problem, for one thing. 😉 If the friends of the IPCC want to change the status quo, then it’s up to them to provide the evidence that their theory is sound. Blaming others because the IPCC can’t provide a convincing argument is silly. No Koch money for you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/67 "2014-06-07T23:12:52Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > If the friends of the IPCC want to change the status quo, then it’s up to them to provide the evidence that their theory is sound. Already done, amply. Horse, water. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/68 "2014-06-07T23:13:16Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > If the friends of the IPCC want to change the status quo, then it’s up to them to provide the evidence that their theory is sound. They’ve done that. Maybe you can guess why scientists see this issue one way and the public sees it another. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/69 "2014-06-07T23:51:48Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Already done, amply. Horse, water. But not convincingly. The clean air and clean water campaigns gained support as time went on. Evidence was provided that convinced the public that something had to be done. Convincing evidence. And the public responded. In spite of any efforts to curtail new regulations. Global warming zealotry was gaining support and then lost it’s support. People can and will provide an opposing viewpoint no matter how often or loudly the AGW zealots object. It’s still up to the friends of the IPCC to provide convincing evidence that their theory is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/70 "2014-06-07T23:54:15Z")
This was supposed to be an argument _against_ money corrupting the political process, wasn’t it? You seem to providing some good evidence it’s done just that. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/71 "2014-06-07T23:57:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > They’ve done that. Maybe you can guess why scientists see this issue one way and the public sees it another. All scientists or just those who make their living promoting global warming? The global warming zealots have made too many mistakes over the last 25 years for the public to simply accept the _consensus_ or _the science is settled_ mantra. They’ll have to provide a MORE convincing case than they have. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/72 "2014-06-07T23:58:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This was supposed to be an argument _against_ money corrupting the political process, wasn’t it? You seem to providing some good evidence it’s done just that. This was supposed to be about the UNCF taking Koch money. Yes, the UNCF should take the Koch bros offer. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/73 "2014-06-08T00:04:01Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > All scientists or just those who make their living promoting global warming? Pretty much all scientists who study the subject. Let’s all take a moment to laugh at **doorhinge** ’s idea that untrustworthy scientists make their living “promoting” this stuff, so we can obviously trust science backed by petroleum magnates because it’s not like they have a profit motive. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/74 "2014-06-08T00:16:59Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > All scientists or just those who make their living promoting global warming? > > The global warming zealots have made too many mistakes over the last 25 years for the public to simply accept the _consensus_ or _the science is settled_ mantra. They’ll have to provide a MORE convincing case than they have. This is not accurate at all, this was pointed at before: [http://berkeleyearth.org/faq](http://berkeleyearth.org/faq) > [@](#): > > Is it time now to end global warming skepticism? > > In its first phase, Berkeley Earth addressed the concern: was the temperature rise on land improperly affected by the four key biases (station quality, homogenization, urban heat island, and station selection)? The answer turned out to be no, but they were questions worthy of investigation. > > Berkeley Earth has now found that the best explanation for the warming seen over the past 250 years is human greenhouse gas emissions. As it turned out it was the contrarians the ones who got it wrong, but projection is a property of the contrarians, it seems that they want to claim with no good support at all that the experts are just as wrong as the contrarians where you get your information from. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/75 "2014-06-08T00:29:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Pretty much all scientists who study the subject. Let’s all take a moment to laugh at **doorhinge** ’s idea that untrustworthy scientists make their living “promoting” this stuff, so we can obviously trust science backed by petroleum magnates because it’s not like they have a profit motive. And your acting like a bully is going to convince how many people that your personal view of global warming is correct? I’ll let people make up their own minds about AGW and the evils of CO2. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/76 "2014-06-08T00:31:28Z")
And oh yeah, it is important to notice here that The Berkeley Earth team was financed in part by Koch too, they expected that Muller would find all the flaws and support people like Anthony Watts, they got another thing coming. On the whole I would say that based on what I have seen I do think the UNCF should take the money and let the ones benefiting from this gift to some day tell the Kochs about how wrong they were by them also funding think thanks and groups that opposed what the science groups reported, after all business will get harder to do around coastal cities. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/77 "2014-06-08T00:31:29Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > This is not accurate at all, this was pointed at before: > As it turned out it was the contrarians the ones who got it wrong, but projection is a property of the contrarians, it seems that they want to claim with no good support at all that the experts are just as wrong as the contrarians where you get your information from. And you’re still left struggling to find public support for your views. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/78 "2014-06-08T00:32:21Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > And your acting like a bully is going to convince how many people that your personal view of global warming is correct? > > I’ll let people make up their own minds about AGW and the evils of CO2. “90% of the world’s scientists agree AGW is real, and a serious problem. But I saw this one guy on the internet who was kind of jerky about it, so it’s probably not a real thing.” Is that your general approach to knowledge? Because that would explain a lot. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/79 "2014-06-08T00:38:09Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > And you’re still left struggling to find public support for your views. Everyone can see that here you are not dealing with the fact that were wrong about the scientists. As for the support: > **[Strong public support for EPA efforts to reduce carbon emissions](https://grist.org/climate-change/2011-09-25-strong-public-support-for-epa-efforts-to-reduce-carbon-emissions/)** > > A new poll finds widespread support for the EPA requiring reductions in carbon emissions. > [@](#): > > the League of Conservation Voters (LCV) released polling by the Republican firm Public Opinion Strategies demonstrating very strong support for EPA efforts to reduce global warming pollution. They found: > > ``` > Fully 71 percent indicate support for requiring reductions in carbon emissions, including a solid majority of Republican voters … > > “Despite the rhetoric coming from most of the Republican presidential candidates, this poll demonstrates what previous research has consistently shown: Americans across the country — including Republican voters — trust the EPA to limit global warming pollution,” said LCV Senior Vice President of Campaigns Navin Nayak. > > ``` More recently, even with the mention of the possible costs the support remains at 63%, that is reaching super majority levels. [http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2014/06/02/poll-finds-broad-support-for-epa-regulations-of-co2/](http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2014/06/02/poll-finds-broad-support-for-epa-regulations-of-co2/) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199/80 "2014-06-08T00:41:41Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > And your acting like a bully is going to convince how many people that your personal view of global warming is correct? Spending millions of dollars to influence the public in a way that endangers the public and enriches you? Cool. Saying on a message board that that’s bad? Bullying. This is educational! > [@](#): > > I’ll let people make up their own minds about AGW and the evils of CO2. I’d be fine with that, too, but someone is spending millions of dollars on disinformation campaigns and essentially bought off one of the two major political parties along the way. That’s not a situation that leads to well-informed decisions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-united-negro-college-fund-turn-down-the-gift-from-the-koch-brothers/690199.md?page=5)