# Should the US Army Employ mercenary Soldiers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 18, 2007, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485 "2007-06-18T17:27:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/21 "2007-06-19T17:05:19Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] **Brainglutton** That applies to a bygone era and not a capitalist system. You’d probably find the life of Erik Prince to be rather fascinating. He seems like a true believer to me. [/QUOTE] In **what,** exactly? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/22 "2007-06-19T17:07:28Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] In **what,** exactly? [/QUOTE] He’s a devout Christian personally. Converted from Evangelicism to Catholicism. He inherited the family business which he turned around and sold for a billion and used that money to form Blackwater. From Blackwater’s frontpage: > [@](#): > > Blackwater USA is the most comprehensive professional military, law enforcement, security, peacekeeping, and stability operations company in the world. > > Blackwater USA comprises nine separate business units to offer the most comprehensive professional security, peacekeeping, and stability operations company in the world. > VISION > To support security, peace, freedom, and democracy everywhere. > > MISSION > To support national and international security policies that protect those who are defenseless and provide a free voice for all with a dedication to providing ethical, efficient, and effective turnkey solutions that positively impact the lives of those still caught in desperate times. > > Blackwater is committed to the foot soldiers – the men and women who stand on the frontlines of the global war on terror and who believe in a peaceful future for their communities and nations. Whether serving in or out of uniform, Blackwater is committed to providing these men and women with the very best in training and tactical support to ensure they are fully prepared to meet current and future global security challenges. [http://www.blackwaterusa.com/](http://www.blackwaterusa.com/) ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/23 "2007-06-19T17:27:18Z")
I can think of no more Christian endeavor than fielding mercenaries. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/24 "2007-06-19T17:42:50Z")
[QUOTE=vibrotronica] I can think of no more Christian endeavor than fielding mercenaries. [/QUOTE] Yes, Jesus spoke at length on the value of mercenaries in the Sermon on the Mount, didn’t he? And don’t forget the Book of Armaments! ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/25 "2007-06-19T18:54:25Z")
One point about hired forces versus the national military that no has mentioned yet: it’s easier to downsize the hired forces. It’s much more difficult to downsize the military. If the costs for training, pensions, veteran benefits are included, I expect the long-term cost for the hired forces is actually less than that for the military. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/26 "2007-06-19T19:39:40Z")
About the willingness of mercenary soldiers to die. I don’t think mercenaries fight the same way as regular troops. Face it-the pay may be good, but you can’t spend if you are dead! I think mercenaries would be prone to retreat, rather than tenaciously hod a position. Mercenaries (like the Swiss Guards) are rare-I can’t imagine them being the rule! In the Congolese Civil War, the mercenaries fought, but wouldn’t stick around if they knew they were going to lose. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/27 "2007-06-19T19:44:36Z")
OTOH, the mercenary [Swiss Guard](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_guard#Swiss_Guards_in_France) of Louis XVI did stand and die for him when the revolutionaries attacked the Tuilieries Palace. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/28 "2007-06-19T20:08:18Z")
I have personally and directly spoken to a US Soldier, one of those special soldiers who left the US on Sept. 12 and hasn’t been back but twice since then. He says he intends to go private military just as soon as he can, as the pay is better by several orders of magnitude. And, as he so eloquently put it, the Gov’t has given him a skillset, just like all the ads say, but unfortunately his skillset has very limited applicability stateside. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/29 "2007-06-19T20:37:04Z")
If we do need some, we can find 'em in or through the classifieds [here.](http://www.sofmag.com/news/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/30 "2007-06-19T21:36:54Z")
[QUOTE=vibrotronica] I can think of no more Christian endeavor than fielding mercenaries. [/QUOTE] The biblical mandate is sort of irrelevant. The Crusader Democracy of Bush & Co applies to people like Erik Prince, just as it applied to the Crusaders in the middle-ages. I’m not arguing that he’s a good Christian, only that he seems to be a true believer in the Globalist crusade that we have recently undertaken. As for holding a position. We don’t really need Mercenaries to hold a position. Also, these guys tend to be far better armed and trained than their adversaries. Certainly they get killed from time to time, but I think their missions are more about quick strikes than holding a line. Modern warfare doesn’t have much in the way of holding a line in the way it used to. The prevailing methods of warfare at the moment are the US form of Centralized Command meets Blitzkrieg vs tactical insurgency. Neither of which are terribly dedicated to holding a line. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/31 "2007-06-19T22:05:19Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] Yes, Jesus spoke at length on the value of mercenaries in the Sermon on the Mount, didn’t he? And don’t forget the Book of Armaments! [/QUOTE] “Blessed are the cheesemakers.” “Ahh, what’s so special about the cheesemakers?” “Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/32 "2007-06-19T22:18:03Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] “Blessed are the cheesemakers.” “Ahh, what’s so special about the cheesemakers?” “Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.” Stranger [/QUOTE] From Blackwater’s site: > [@](#): > > Blackwater USA is the most comprehensive professional military, law enforcement, security, **peacekeeping** , and stability operations company in the world. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/33 "2007-06-20T00:13:22Z")
[QUOTE=vibrotronica] No. We pay more money for our armed forces than everybody else on the planet combined. Why shouldn’t that money buy enough soldiers to do the job? If I were made President tomorrow, one of the first things I would do would be to move to nationalize Blackwater and the other “security contractors” running around Baghdad playing soldier. You wanna play soldier, you gotta play by the rules and get paid the same rate as the other poor schlubs who want to serve their country the right way. [/QUOTE] Deliberately design to prevent that, Paul Bremers oder # 17’‘’ Grants contractors including security firms ,full immunity from Iraqs laws. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/34 "2007-06-20T01:11:58Z")
I don’t know if the U.S. should employ mercenaries, but if they’re legitimately full blown mercenaries (according to international law, that means not U.S. citizens or residents - an American resident working for Blackwater is not a mercenary, according to the International Convention against mercenaries) I sure as hell know what should be done with them. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/35 "2007-06-20T02:01:23Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] I don’t know if the U.S. should employ mercenaries, but if they’re legitimately full blown mercenaries (according to international law, that means not U.S. citizens or residents - an American resident working for Blackwater is not a mercenary, according to the International Convention against mercenaries) I sure as hell know what should be done with them. [/QUOTE] The United States actually is not signatory to the part of the Geneva Convention that defines mercenaries. The term mercenary is more or less equated in the popular mind with the term “hired soldier.” And even the United Nations has employed such mercenaries. PMCs are able to carefully skirt being directly defined as a mercenary (which would make them an unlawful combatant under the GC); despite the fact they function in a manner very similar to traditional mercenaries. It is worth mentioning that the biggest difference between modern and historical mercenary forces is usually historical mercenary forces were nationals of country B and would hire their services out to country A who was at war with country C. Italy produced some very skilled and accomplished mercenary bands, and Venice at the apex of its power used them extensively because Venice had tons of gold but relatively limited manpower. While private mercenary groups have always existed (many of the Italian mercenary bands were lead privately) many of the largest mercenary groups in history were actually working under orders from their own government. The Hessians who were sent to fight for the United Kingdom during the American Revolution weren’t members of a mercenary band fighting for profit. They were subjects of Landgrave Frederick II of Hesse-Kassel who were _conscripted_ in that German state and ordered to fight for the British crown, to enrich the coffers of Frederick II (as well as leaders of other German states who also sent over conscripts in exchange for payment.) ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/36 "2007-06-20T02:38:22Z")
Blackwater hires a multinational fighting force. Not all of their soldiers are Americans. Also, they have been deployed on American soil, Hurricane Katrina is a good example. They were sent in for extraction of high level corporate officials. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/37 "2007-06-20T05:23:31Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Blackwater hires a multinational fighting force. Not all of their soldiers are Americans. Also, they have been deployed on American soil, Hurricane Katrina is a good example. They were sent in for extraction of high level corporate officials. [/QUOTE] They also guarded against the prying eyes of news media in the trailer parks FEMA set up. I saw a couple TV programs when reportere tried to get in the parks and were forced away by Blackwater guards. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/38 "2007-06-20T06:20:38Z")
As an ER nurse, I hit Blackwaters job opportunities for medics. I don’t qualify, but the job offers about 150,000 for an 8 month work year, command must do well indeed ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/39 "2007-06-20T13:07:47Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] The United States actually is not signatory to the part of the Geneva Convention that defines mercenaries. [/QUOTE] That may be; the fact remains that mercenaries are mercenaries. They’re no better than pirates and if caught fighting in a war the appropriate measure is to execute them. Pirates would deserve the same too even if the U.S. decided not to recognize the crime of piracy. Again, I’d argue that an American citizen who fights for a “contractor” is not quite a mercenary in the true sense, and opening up the designation of “mercenary” to Americans serving in an American conflict would result in ridiculous distinctions. The manner in which America arranges the employment of Americans to fight an American war isn’t really the point of the international prohibition against mercenaries. There’s certainly a domestic policy debate to be had there, I guess. But if the U.S. hires South Africans to fight for them in Iraq? They get whatever’s coming to them, I say, and so should anyone who leads them into battle. Goddamned parasites. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485/40 "2007-06-21T07:14:57Z")
You cannot trust someone who kills for money. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-army-employ-mercenary-soldiers/408485.md?page=3)