# Should the US be bartering with terrorists? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 1, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787 "2014-06-01T20:32:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/101 "2014-06-03T22:39:43Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > I defy anyone to read these statements and reasonably conclude the GOP in general and Senator McCain in particular are not shamelessly exploiting this issue for political gain. That’s why I just don’t take any GOP criticisms of this deal seriously. yah, about the [shameless exploitation of the issue](http://www.therightperspective.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Sgt-Bowe-Bergdahl-family-Rose-Garden.jpg). Bergdahl’s parents just happened to be wondering by the Rose Garden following the VA scandal. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/102 "2014-06-03T22:39:54Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > Here’s Senator John McCain in [May 2012](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/10/world/asia/pow-is-focus-of-talks-on-taliban-prisoner-swap.html?pagewanted=all&_r=2&): > > Then, in [February 2014](http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/john-McCain-Taliban-Bowe-Bergdah-exchange/2014/02/18/id/553454/): > > And now, McCain [last Sunday on Face the Nation](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/john-mccain-questions-swap-of-highest-high-risk-people-for-bergdahl/): > > I defy anyone to read these statements and reasonably conclude the GOP in general and Senator McCain in particular are not shamelessly exploiting this issue for political gain. That’s why I just don’t take any GOP criticisms of this deal seriously. Not seeing anything particularly inconsistent, especially if you look at the first sentence of the 2nd cite (emphasis added): > [@](#): > > Sen. John McCain says he now would be inclined to support trading a Taliban prisoner held at Guantanamo Bay for a U.S. soldier held captive in Afghanistan. And, it would depend on the details. It seems reasonable to assume that one of the “details” is which exact Taliban prisoner (singular) is released. I guess if you’re predisposed to dislike McCain\* you can purposely read this in an unfavorable light, but I see no reason why one must read it that way. \*And, actually, I am predisposed to dislike him these days. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/103 "2014-06-03T22:55:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > yah, about the [shameless exploitation of the issue](http://www.therightperspective.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Sgt-Bowe-Bergdahl-family-Rose-Garden.jpg). > > Bergdahl’s parents just happened to be wondering by the Rose Garden following the VA scandal. This has almost certainly been in the works for months (and likely years)-- if not, Obama gets a lot of credit for putting together one of the fastest major prisoner swaps across the whole planet in history. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/104 "2014-06-03T22:56:52Z")
> [@Oliveritaly](#): > > iiandyiiii, > > 20+ year US Army vet here chiming in to say you’ve nailed it with every post in this thread. Thanks. They made attempts to get him back. it cost money, time and lives. those are all assets that could have been used to safeguard other soldiers. The ones who didn’t abandon their post. Your kid could have died looking for him. If you’re fine with that then I’m fine with your kid dieing for it too. It’s admirable that you feel that way. However, I don’t think it’s realistic to expect people to come after you when you forsake your country. It’s just a coincidence that this coincided with a military photo op by the President immediately following the VA coverups. I hope and pray the terrorists released don’t kill more soldiers but that’s not a realistic expectation. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/105 "2014-06-03T22:57:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > yah, about the [shameless exploitation of the issue](http://www.therightperspective.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Sgt-Bowe-Bergdahl-family-Rose-Garden.jpg). > > Bergdahl’s parents just happened to be wondering by the Rose Garden following the VA scandal. All I see is some blog with notes saying “right click to download”. What’s this supposed to prove? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/106 "2014-06-03T22:59:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This has almost certainly been in the works for months (and likely years)-- if not, Obama gets a lot of credit for putting together one of the fastest major prisoner swaps across the whole planet in history. The official WH story is that it all came together too fast to let Congress know. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/107 "2014-06-03T23:03:15Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The official WH story is that it all came together too fast to let Congress know. The official WH story says that a possible exchange has been in the works for years, and Congress was informed on their progress (except for the last bit). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/108 "2014-06-03T23:07:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > They made attempts to get him back. it cost money, time and lives. those are all assets that could have been used to safeguard other soldiers. The ones who didn’t abandon their post. Your kid could have died looking for him. If you’re fine with that then I’m fine with your kid dieing for it too. It’s admirable that you feel that way. However, I don’t think it’s realistic to expect people to come after you when you forsake your country. When I was in the service, I would have been willing to risk my life to search for a fellow sailor, _even if he was accused of desertion, and even if he had supposedly left a note critical of America._ Accusations and allegations and supposed notes due not eliminate the oath I took, and the commitment I made to my fellow servicemen. Any deaths that resulted from such a search are tragic, and Bergdahl may well be culpable – but these accusations, allegations, and supposed notes have (and should have) nothing to do with whether we should try to bring him home. I guess you’re certain he’s a deserter and a traitor, and that probably gives you peace of mind. Without the luxury of certainty, and with the oaths and commitments I made, I’m unable to dismiss a fellow servicemember and leave him for the enemy – even if he’s accused of desertion, and even if he supposedly left a note critical of America. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/109 "2014-06-03T23:10:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The official WH story is that it all came together too fast to let Congress know. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The official WH story says that a possible exchange has been in the works for years, and Congress was informed on their progress (except for the last bit). True enough, but the official WH story is that something changed, and closing the deal became urgent. First it was his health, but then it was reported he was in good health. Maybe I haven’t read all the updates, but there is still something fishy about the WH’s official story. I have to say, though, that thinking about it a bit more, I tend to agree with Obama that the 30-day notification period is too much Congressional encroachment on the executive’s constitutional authority during a time of war. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/110 "2014-06-04T04:02:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > They made attempts to get him back. it cost money, time and lives. those are all assets that could have been used to safeguard other soldiers. Armchair quarterbacking is great and all, but at the end of the day, we don’t abandon soldiers based on hearsay in the fog of war. First we bring back our fallen and captured, then we decide if they did anything wrong. Not the other way around. Soldiers are subject to the UCMJ, not on the whims of the Taliban. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/111 "2014-06-04T04:42:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > True enough, but the official WH story is that something changed, and closing the deal became urgent. First it was his health, but then it was reported he was in good health. [Stars and Stripes](http://www.stripes.com/news/bergdahl-getting-treatment-requires-hospitalization-landstuhl-medical-center-says-1.286591) is reporting he’s hospitalized at Landstuhl in Germany. “Bergdahl is in stable condition, but needs hospitalization for both physical and psychological issues stemming from nearly five years of captivity.” They’re not saying when he’ll return stateside, but when he does, he’s expected to be sent to the military hospital in San Antonio. This doesn’t really sound like “good health.” Adding 2 plus 2 (and possibly getting 5), I think he’s in the psych ward, and it wasn’t necessarily his physical health they thought was urgent. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/112 "2014-06-04T04:45:57Z")
Personally I think Obama has entered into the “kick the Republicans in the nuts” phase of his Presidency. At last. First it is the EPA rules which will constrict the economies of places like Kentucky and Texas if they are not willing to adapt. Now releasing Taliban in exchange for our troops, unilaterally. What is the debate here? Send the guy back? No. Obama made a decision and everyone is just going to have to live with bringing our boys home. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/113 "2014-06-04T07:08:21Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Armchair quarterbacking is great and all, but at the end of the day, we don’t abandon soldiers based on hearsay in the fog of war. First we bring back our fallen and captured, then we decide if they did anything wrong. Not the other way around. Soldiers are subject to the UCMJ, not on the whims of the Taliban. he wasn’t abandoned. We spent a great deal of time, money and risk to other people to find him. If he was the worlds greatest hero he is not entitled to an exchange with ruthless people. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/114 "2014-06-04T09:09:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > he wasn’t abandoned. We spent a great deal of time, money and risk to other people to find him. If he was the worlds greatest hero he is not entitled to an exchange with ruthless people. So you oppose prisoner exchanges with “ruthless people” on principle? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/115 "2014-06-04T12:10:56Z")
You know, if Obama had refused to release the guy the right wing would be screaming about how we abandoned this poor soldier and how prisoner of war swaps should be a vital part of ending any conflict. And they’d be fighting any attempts to besmirch his character without due process and old man McCain would be deep in his" fellowship with another POW" mode. This is why the right has no credibility anymore…they’re like a bunch of kindergarten kids playing “opposite day” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/116 "2014-06-04T13:08:31Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > Here’s Senator John McCain… > > \ > > I defy anyone to read these statements and reasonably conclude the GOP in general and Senator McCain in particular are not shamelessly exploiting this issue for political gain. That’s why I just don’t take any GOP criticisms of this deal seriously. I do think the GOP is exploiting this issue (and they’d be exploiting the other side of it if the Taliban got tired of waiting and executed Bergdahl.) That said, I think McCain’s comments made it pretty clear that the devil was in the details, for him. Given that, you can’t really call him out for opposing the swap. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/117 "2014-06-04T14:34:17Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > You know, if Obama had refused to release the guy the right wing would be screaming about how we abandoned this poor soldier and how prisoner of war swaps should be a vital part of ending any conflict. And they’d be fighting any attempts to besmirch his character without due process and old man McCain would be deep in his" fellowship with another POW" mode. > > This is why the right has no credibility anymore…they’re like a bunch of kindergarten kids playing “opposite day” Can you believe how the right wing is just in reflexive anti-Obama mode: > [@](#): > > Senate Intelligence Committee chair Dianne Feinstein, a senior member of President Barack Obama’s Democratic Party, said the White House breached US law when it failed to alert Congress to the proposed trade. > > “It comes with some surprise and dismay that the transfers went ahead with no consultation, totally not following the law,” she told reporters. > > “We’re very dismayed about it.” Seriously, though, it’s a fallacious argument to claim to know what one side would be doing if events had turned out quite differently. Sure, you’re always going to have certain reflexive types who are never going to agree with Obama, but McCain has agreed with him on a number of occasions. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/118 "2014-06-04T14:41:44Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > [Stars and Stripes](http://www.stripes.com/news/bergdahl-getting-treatment-requires-hospitalization-landstuhl-medical-center-says-1.286591) is reporting he’s hospitalized at Landstuhl in Germany. “Bergdahl is in stable condition, but needs hospitalization for both physical and psychological issues stemming from nearly five years of captivity.” They’re not saying when he’ll return stateside, but when he does, he’s expected to be sent to the military hospital in San Antonio. > > This doesn’t really sound like “good health.” > > Adding 2 plus 2 (and possibly getting 5), I think he’s in the psych ward, and it wasn’t necessarily his physical health they thought was urgent. Perhaps, although I can’t imagine who they could possibly have evaluated his mental health in order to conclude that the prisoner swap had to be rushed. LIke I said, something is fishy about this story, and the WH is now backtracking about having kept Congress informed. Frankly, I think the public would be mostly behind Obama on this so I don’t know why he doesn’t just claim responsibility, say it was an executive decision that is within his constitutional prerogatives, and just let this play out. The more they keep changing the story, the more it feeds into those who are trying to cask this in a negative light. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/119 "2014-06-04T14:46:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Perhaps, although I can’t imagine who they could possibly have evaluated his mental health in order to conclude that the prisoner swap had to be rushed. LIke I said, something is fishy about this story, and the WH is now backtracking about having kept Congress informed. > > Frankly, I think the public would be mostly behind Obama on this so I don’t know why he doesn’t just claim responsibility, say it was an executive decision that is within his constitutional prerogatives, and just let this play out. The more they keep changing the story, the more it feeds into those who are trying to cask this in a negative light. How has the story changed in any significant way? Sure, Susan Rice said he served with distinction (or whatever), but who has changed the story, and how? ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787/120 "2014-06-04T14:56:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I do think the GOP is exploiting this issue (and they’d be exploiting the other side of it if the Taliban got tired of waiting and executed Bergdahl.) That said, I think McCain’s comments made it pretty clear that the devil was in the details, for him. Given that, you can’t really call him out for opposing the swap. Every politician will use the “devil is in the details” fig leaf to justify changing their opinion when the political winds change direction. That’s not a defense. His statements are clearly in conflict according to the flip-flopper rules the GOP plays by (anybody remember Kerry’s supposed “I was for the Iraq war before I was against it”?). There is a whole thread on this board wondering if Bergdahl is being Swift-boated. That should tell you that questioning the GOP’s motives on this issue is pretty reasonable. Regardless of Bergdahl’s actions, I think most members of the military would agree that getting him back to the US is a worthwhile goal–if only to court-martial him–rather than leaving a man in the field, no matter what his supposed crimes (he has certainly paid a high price for them with five years in captivity). They should also be concerned with how quickly GOP leaders will throw one of them under the bus to score political points. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-be-bartering-with-terrorists/689787.md?page=7)