# Should the US Lower Muslim Immigration? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 16, 2016, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497 "2016-06-16T04:35:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/21 "2016-06-16T17:05:09Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why not? Freedom isn’t absolute. And if people abuse their freedoms shouldn’t they be stripped of it? Lots of talk about repealing the 2nd. Why not modify the 1st? **Troublesome ideas, publications, religions, and other assemblies are a danger. Why put society at risk due to support for archaic notions of intrinsic rights and liberty?** And when that’s turned on you, you’ll squeal like a stuck pig. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/22 "2016-06-16T18:05:30Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Any particular reason why? Because I feel it would be unconstitutional for the government to establish a preference for or against a specific religion. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/23 "2016-06-16T18:10:03Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why not? Freedom isn’t absolute. And if people abuse their freedoms shouldn’t they be stripped of it? Lots of talk about repealing the 2nd. Why not modify the 1st? Troublesome ideas, publications, religions, and other assemblies are a danger. Why put society at risk due to support for archaic notions of intrinsic rights and liberty? I’m fine with stripping people of their freedom if they abuse it. But I’m not going to pre-emptively declare that the entire membership of a religion should be held responsible for what some followers of that religion have done. There have been terrible crimes committed by Muslim criminals. They have also been terrible crimes committed by Christian criminals, Jewish criminals, Hindu criminals, Buddhist criminals, and atheist criminals. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/24 "2016-06-16T18:17:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There have been terrible crimes committed by Muslim criminals. They have also been terrible crimes committed by Christian criminals, Jewish criminals, Hindu criminals, Buddhist criminals, and atheist criminals. Hey! That’s religious discriminalation! ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/25 "2016-06-16T18:18:15Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > While it seems like a fairly clear rejection of some of the fundamental principles reflected in the US Constitution, I’m not sure that discriminating between prospective migrants on the basis of their religion would violate the Constitution itself. My searching abilities are not up to finding it, but I seem to recall an earlier thread on this topic, where Dopers more knowledgeable than I argued that non-citizens outside the United States enjoyed very limited protection under the Constitution. If the US can imprison non-citizens outside the US indefinitely without charging or convicting them of any crime or affording them any due process, I don’t think we can assume that non-citizens outside the US can invoke the “freedom of religion” or “equal protection” clauses. However, their U.S. citizen relatives and prospective employers are having their rights to petition for their relatives/prospective employees curtailed. I’d say the right to reside in the same country as one’s spouse is pretty important, wouldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/26 "2016-06-16T18:48:21Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I’d prefer to ship off the 47%. Like my Grandmother? Why do you hate my Grandma? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/27 "2016-06-16T19:21:20Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I’d prefer to ship off the 47%. > > Why not? Freedom isn’t absolute. And if people abuse their freedoms shouldn’t they be stripped of it? Lots of talk about repealing the 2nd. Why not modify the 1st? Troublesome ideas, publications, religions, and other assemblies are a danger. Why put society at risk due to support for archaic notions of intrinsic rights and liberty? When you retire, YOU’LL be in the 47%, mooching off the rest of us with your SS and Medicare. Where will you go? Your second point is quite noxious. Some freedoms are close to absolute. We don’t allow polygamy or sacrifices, but other than you’re 100% entitled to freedom of religion. The second need not be repealed, just add a few words to the end “while serving in the militia”. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/28 "2016-06-16T19:28:13Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > When you retire, YOU’LL be in the 47%, mooching off the rest of us with your SS and Medicare. Where will you go? He’ll be living off the tens of millions he saved while working his minimum wage job. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/29 "2016-06-16T19:35:21Z")
The US should not be limiting immigration by religion. Honestly, we shouldn’t even be asking about religion except maybe out of idle curiosity. I’m not even a big fan of limiting immigration by country of origin. Should Europe treat American immigrants as if they are all the same? I am in favor of measures like insisting on proper background checks, limiting immigration to those with certain skills or careers, following up with immigrants afterwards, those kinds of things. These are reasonable measures that can be applied to everyone regardless of their beliefs or backgrounds. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/30 "2016-06-16T19:36:36Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Should the US lower Muslim immigration until Islamist ideas and sentiments cool down in the region? Now that its out in the open, lets have a Great Debate! To what end? (IOW, no) I don’t see that the threat from Muslim immigration is all that high when you take a step back and look at the big picture and think about the probabilities. Are you more likely to be killed by a Muslim immigrant in the US than, oh, say swallowing a tooth pick? My guess is you are more likely to be killed by swallowing the tooth pick, even if we include 9/11, if we look time. The vast majority of Muslim immigrants to the US are, like all other ethnic and religious immigrants, an overall plus for the country. The few bad ones are, like all other ethnic and religious immigrants, bad, and might cause harm. Just like the vast majority of AMERICANS are good people, and a few bad ones get in the news doing crazy or evil shit. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/31 "2016-06-16T19:55:39Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > When you retire, YOU’LL be in the 47%, mooching off the rest of us with your SS and Medicare. Where will you go? > > Your second point is quite noxious. Some freedoms are close to absolute. We don’t allow polygamy or sacrifices, but other than you’re 100% entitled to freedom of religion. The second need not be repealed, just add a few words to the end “while serving in the militia”. Well since the gubmint has been taxing my check and my wife’s check specifically for SS and Medicare I don’t think so. I’d be perfectly willing for the government to stop taking those thousands each year and let me stick them in my own Vanguard account. Which fortunately for us, even without SS, we will be fine. All freedoms are granted by the grace of the strong. The 1st is far from absolute. > [@Lemur866](#): > > Like my Grandmother? Why do you hate my Grandma? I don’t hate your Grandmother. She’s a fine lady. Policy can be more nuanced and we can make exceptions for certain grandmothers. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/32 "2016-06-16T22:16:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t think immigration quotas should classify people by religion. And a religious test for immigrants would never survive a First Amendment challenge. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/33 "2016-06-16T22:20:09Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > Perhaps the US should consider increased emmigration? > > Requisition some large offshore and now redundant naval/army base, set it up as an autonomous libertarian Christian fundamentalist low tax haven with secured and fully walled borders and in exchange for renouncing voting rights, offer free passage and lodging to any and all who think that represents the utopian society the US should be. Actually many of the wingnuts are trying to do this themselves, though sadly they’re not going offshore. Like [these lunatics](http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/libertarians-are-building-a-castle-around-their-city-of-guns-in-rural-idaho) who want to build a walled castle to house their denizens, apparently on the basis that if walled castles were good enough protection in the medieval Dark Ages, they’re good enough protection in 2016. This particular bunch aren’t Christian fundamentalist loons, they’re gun-nut loons, but it’s the same idea, and in fact they’re probably both. The sole industry of this community will be gun manufacturing, and the sole responsibility of the resident Patriots will be shooting them. Also, Patriots must avoid any liberal skulduggery like for instance recycling. It’s all pretty entertaining. This particular idiocy has been “in planning” for years and of course nothing has been done and nothing will. Too bad because it would be hilarious. > [@Valgard](#): > > No. It’s completely silly and ineffective. > > Article from CNN showing some of the impact Trump’s proposed immigration ban would have which seems directly relevant to the OP: > > [http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/politics/muslim-ban-maps-donald-trump/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/politics/muslim-ban-maps-donald-trump/index.html) > > Under these types of rules, a large number of my relatives, several in-laws, coworkers and neighbors as well as the dentist I carpool with would all be banned from the country. Is it actually necessary to point out that none of them are extremists, terrorists or fanatics? > > Good thing that Donald Trump’s wife Melania was born in Slovenia and not 50 miles away in Bosnia-Herzegovena or she’d be subject to the ban as well. > > None of those folks are Muslim so you might respond that they wouldn’t be affected by such a restriction, but if someone wants to enter the US and they know that being a Muslim will get them barred do you really think that they’ll just say “Dang, you got me. I will go away now”? Will a Muslim terrorist cancel his plans because someone might ask him his religion? Quite true, and it creates a really wonderful dichotomy. Wingnuts like Trump absolutely refuse to consider any form of gun control despite the daily carnage because it might inconvenience Law Abiding Citizens™ and they argue that the Bad Guys™ and the insane might still be able to get guns, even though it could be made a whole lot harder and consequent gun violence therefore much less frequent, as it is in other countries. But those same wingnuts have no trouble at all condemning and outright banning all 1.6 billion members of the world’s largest religion even though it would be heinously discriminatory and ludicrously ineffective, and would in fact increase hostility against the US among radicals and create ill will throughout the civilized world. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/34 "2016-06-16T22:23:47Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Wingnuts like Trump absolutely refuse to consider any form of gun control despite the daily carnage because it might inconvenience Law Abiding Citizens™ and they argue that the Bad Guys™ and the insane might still be able to get guns, even though it could be made a whole lot harder and consequent gun violence therefore much less frequent, as it is in other countries. Not that “meeting with” necessarily means anything, [but](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/16/us/politics/donald-trump-gun-control-nra.html?_r=0); > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON — Donald J. Trump said Wednesday that people on the terror watch list should be barred from buying firearms, putting himself in the center of a gun-control debate in Congress revived by the worst mass shooting in United States history. > > Mr. Trump’s stance, expressed in a Twitter post, does not necessarily jibe with the positions of the Republican Party and the National Rifle Association, whose endorsement Mr. Trump frequently boasts about on the campaign trail. His tweet could be read to support measures pushed by Democrats and opposed by Republicans in Congress, reflecting the unusual nuances of the issue, which touches on public safety and civil rights beyond the Second Amendment. > > “I will be meeting with the N.R.A., who has endorsed me, about not allowing people on the terrorist watch list, or the no-fly list, to buy guns,” Mr. Trump, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, wrote Wednesday morning on Twitter. His comment came three days after 49 people were killed when a gunman who pledged allegiance to the Islamic State stormed an Orlando nightclub. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/35 "2016-06-16T22:41:45Z")
I suspect that if Trump had his way this “list” would end up containing every Muslim in America. I don’t see this as reflecting any kind of flexibility on gun control, but rather, reflecting Trump’s view that Muslims don’t have rights. Trump has no problem with white supremacists and the insane being allowed to buy all the guns they want, just as long as they’re not Muslim. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/36 "2016-06-16T22:44:49Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Like [these lunatics](http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/libertarians-are-building-a-castle-around-their-city-of-guns-in-rural-idaho) who want to build a walled castle to house their denizens, apparently on the basis that if walled castles were good enough protection in the medieval Dark Ages, they’re good enough protection in 2016. This particular bunch aren’t Christian fundamentalist loons, they’re gun-nut loons, but it’s the same idea, and in fact they’re probably both. The sole industry of this community will be gun manufacturing, and the sole responsibility of the resident Patriots will be shooting them. You’d think of all the people who’d understand why castles are obsolete, it would be this crowd. The reason people stopped building medieval walled castles is because they’re easy to knock down with guns. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/37 "2016-06-17T00:03:28Z")
I think the porous border to the south/southwest is a far more critical concern with regard to immigration policy. I mean, I want “immigration reform to fix a broken immigration system” by doing nothing to secure the border and not enforcing current immigration laws. #liberalogic ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/38 "2016-06-17T00:07:46Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > I mean, I want “immigration reform to fix a broken immigration system” by doing nothing to secure the border and not enforcing current immigration laws. > > #liberalogic Just can’t help it, huh? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/39 "2016-06-17T00:13:20Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > I think the porous border to the south/southwest is a far more critical concern with regard to immigration policy. > > I mean, I want “immigration reform to fix a broken immigration system” by doing nothing to secure the border and not enforcing current immigration laws. > > #liberalogic “Praise The Lord for porus borders and unenforced immigration laws. We won’t have to hire legal workers.” #jobcreatorslogic ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497/40 "2016-06-17T01:06:34Z")
Yes, absolutely. Islam incompatible with Western civilization. Of course, a permanent ban on all Muslim immigration would be best, and that’s not what Trump’s proposing, but even a temporary ban is a start. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-muslim-immigration/757497.md?page=3)