# Should the Vietnam War matter to us now? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2004, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391 "2004-03-10T01:46:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/41 "2004-08-28T04:58:06Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Then you got a reputation, **quick** on the **drawl**. Isn’t that a contradiction in terms? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Eureka2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@Eureka2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka2)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/42 "2004-08-28T12:29:19Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator A considerable portion of the outrage was the shattering of illussions. We grew up believers, there was no doubt, no question. [/QUOTE] Illusion shattering goes both ways, of course. For many years, it was a given that McCarthy was a nut, “free love was where it’s at” and drugs were the way to enlightenment. Prior to this 2004 campaign, millions of voters were hardly aware of Sen. Kerry, other than a vague confusion with that other “Kerrey”, from Nebraska. The former had successfully morphed his popular image into a ho-hum liberal politician from Massachusetts. Whoops! Thanks to the Swift Vets, his activities during the war and subsequent to same have caused justifiable outrage. Not that long ago, the left-leaning major news media outlets would have ignored or white-washed Sen. Kerry’s involvement with the V V A W. This is no longer possible. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/43 "2004-08-29T00:23:42Z")
> [@Eureka2](#): > > Thanks to the Swift Vets, his activities during the war and subsequent to same have caused justifiable outrage. Not that long ago, the left-leaning major news media outlets would have ignored or white-washed Sen. Kerry’s involvement with the V V A W. This is no longer possible. But why should this matter **now** (especially to those who are 40 or younger)? What good does it do to keep refighting the Vietnam War over and over again? At a certain point, you just have to move on. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2004, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/44 "2004-08-29T01:10:57Z")
The vast majority of the American public would love nothing better than to **not** be beaten over the head with the Vietnam War every day, unfortunately Kerry decided to make that the cornerstone of his entire campaign. Makes me wonder why he would put the primary focus on a 4 months time period that happened 30 years ago instead of his entire Senate record (unless of course that’s on purpose 😉 ). ---
**Author:** ![Eureka2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@Eureka2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka2)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2004, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/45 "2004-08-29T02:01:31Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > At a certain point, you just have to move on. One would hope he would have; but Sen. Kerry and his supporters inexplicably chose to make his service, such as it was, a centerpiece of his campaign. I agree, it’s nauseating. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2004, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/46 "2004-08-29T02:40:51Z")
> [@Eureka2](#): > > One would hope he would have; but Sen. Kerry and his supporters inexplicably chose to make his service, such as it was, a centerpiece of his campaign. I agree, it’s nauseating. The only thing that’s “nauseating” is the blindly stubborn refusal of some rightwingers to keep fighting the Vietnam War. The SBVT campaign really had nothing to do with any alleged fakery of combat heroics by Kerry but instead for his critical stance on Vietnam. Never mind the fact that the war’s been over for nearly 30 years, it’s payback time! I guess some people just love to hold a grudge. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/47 "2004-08-29T02:51:28Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > The only thing that’s “nauseating” is the blindly stubborn refusal of some rightwingers to keep fighting the Vietnam War. **Time for a reality check** - Nothing about the Vietnam War would be anywhere in the news if Kerry hadn’t insisted on bringing it up in the first place. Yes, there has been a lot of rightwing rebuttal, but it’s all been in response to Kerry’s insistence of making this the biggest issue in the campaign. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2004, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/48 "2004-08-29T08:10:52Z")
It’s his best example of his leadership skills in a war situation; why _shouldn’t_ he use it? Kerry’s Vietnam tours are nothing to be ashamed about, despite the efforts of the right to smear him otherwise. Especially since he actually showed up and got his ass shot at, unlike some other candidates we can mention… ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2004, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/49 "2004-08-29T10:48:02Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > Specifically, is the stance someone took on the Vietnam War (pro or con) during the 60’s and 70’s relevant to American voters now (particularly those born after 1975)? > > I’ve noticed that during the whole debate regarding Bush’s and Kerry’s comparative service records during Vietnam, many conservatives have attacked Kerry’s public opposition to the war in an effort to devalue Kerry’s military record. This has made me wonder what’s the expiration date on this issue anyway? The Vietnam War ended in 1975. The Cold War (the central conflict from which it sprang) ended in 1989. The Soviet Union (America’s primary opponent in the Cold War) dissolved in 1991. Our current enemies are not in any way taken with doctrines of Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, and Mao. Still, Vietnam has apparently become the “bloody shirt” of the late 20th and early 21st century. > > Let’s discuss. It’s not his political stance per se that’s in question. It’s the fact that he served, then stabbed his fellow servicemen in the back. It’s the fact that his statements served to hearten the enemy. It’s the fact that he committed treason and is now running for President. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/50 "2004-08-29T16:00:58Z")
Well, why didn’t you say so! That clears up everything! All right-thinking _real_ Americans agree that unstinting and unquestioning obedience to The Leader is required of all _real_ Americans. Except, of course, for American interference with the Balkans. That’s differerent, because the men who criticized Clinton were _real_ Americans, on a noble crusade to unseat a President who had waged war under false pretenses and had stained the dignity of the Oral Office. That’s an _entirely_ different matter, and all right-thinking Americans agree. I am sure friend **Clothahump** will be amongst the first in line to accept installation of his Patriot Chip. Sarcasm aside, **Clothahump** , when telling the truth is treason, we no longer have a country to be loyal to. Merely a geographic entity, a set of borders in which we happen to reside. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2004, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/51 "2004-08-29T16:17:17Z")
Amen and amen, Elucidator. The Vietnam War is important mainly because it illustrates what free people can do when they become vigilant — the war ends, and the administration that delays its end is toppled. ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2004, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/52 "2004-08-29T16:24:21Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > … unfortunately Kerry decided to make that the cornerstone of his entire campaign. > [@Eureka2](#): > > One would hope he would have; but Sen. Kerry and his supporters inexplicably chose to make his service, such as it was, a centerpiece of his campaign. > [@flickster](#): > > **Time for a reality check** - Nothing about the Vietnam War would be anywhere in the news if Kerry hadn’t insisted on bringing it up in the first place. Equine feces. I sincerely doubt that Kerry would even be the Democratic nominee if not for his military service. The Republicans chose the battleground here. Well before the Democratic primaries began, the Republicans made it clear that national security and the War on Terror were to be the centerpiece of the re-election campaign strategy. The Democrats knew that they were going to have to go up against the self-proclaimed incumbent “Dubya-A-R president”. Don’t you remember “Mission Accomplished”? Had this not been the situation, Dean was a much more likely candidate. Edwards may have had a better shot at the top of the ticket. The caucuses in Iowa went for Kerry for this very reason. None of the other Democratic candidates had the necessary national security foundation to withstand the inevitable assualts from the Republican guerilla tactics. It wasn’t Kerry and his campaign that put Vietnam front and center. It was, however, the Democrats. But only after the Republicans chose the venue. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/53 "2004-08-29T18:49:22Z")
> [@AZCowboy](#): > > Equine feces. > > I sincerely doubt that Kerry would even be the Democratic nominee if not for his military service. The Republicans chose the battleground here. Well before the Democratic primaries began, the Republicans made it clear that national security and the War on Terror were to be the centerpiece of the re-election campaign strategy. Laughable response. If prior military experience was the only qualifier, there was a much better candidate available during the primaries. ---
**Author:** ![Aitara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aitara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aitara)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/54 "2004-08-29T19:53:07Z")
This is not a new issue for Kerry, I think what is different is that O’Neill is once again well-funded and is starting to gather a number of ther Vietnam Vets that sympahize with his point of view. > [@](#): > > Perhaps, more significantly, Mr. Kerry has also used Vietnam as a proxy for the issue that has given him the most trouble in this campaign: Iraq. Because he has struggled to define how he would use American power, Mr. Kerry counted on his Vietnam service to prove his standing as a soldier-patriot, and his Vietnam protest to show his willingness to question well-intended policies gone bad > > But the old culture wars followed him into the 21st century, and he now finds himself bombarded by veterans who question not only his patriotism but his honor - in a sometimes distorted discussion that has nevertheless played into public doubts about the Democrats’ strength abroad and values at home and that has hurt Mr. Kerry’s standing in the polls. > > The truth is that in every campaign since his bruising defeat for Congress on an antiwar platform in 1972, Mr. Kerry’s journey from medal-winning Swift boat skipper to medal-throwing protester may have hurt him as much as it has helped [New York Times-Week in Review 8/29/04](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/29/weekinreview/29purd.html) ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/55 "2004-08-29T20:37:44Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > If prior military experience was the only qualifier, there was a much better candidate available during the primaries. Did someone suggest that it was the only qualifier? Didn’t think so. What is laughable is the assertion that the Dems (or Kerry) were the first to put “war”, and the credentials of leading this country in times of one, at the forefront of this election. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/56 "2004-08-29T21:29:13Z")
> [@AZCowboy](#): > > Did someone suggest that it was the only qualifier? Didn’t think so. > [@](#): > > I sincerely doubt that Kerry would even be the Democratic nominee if not for his military service. True, you didn’t say only, but you certainly implied primary. Our complaint was being drug through the Vietnam War again - which IS Kerry’s doing. IMHO, a long term Senator should be able to distinguish themself as a leader by standing on their record (or in Kerry’s case - maybe not - he’s certainly chosen to ignore it). ---
**Author:** ![Eureka2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@Eureka2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka2)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2004, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/57 "2004-08-30T00:03:50Z")
> [@AZCowboy](#): > > None of the other Democratic candidates had the necessary national security foundation to withstand the inevitable assualts from the Republican guerilla tactics. It wasn’t Kerry and his campaign that put Vietnam front and center. It was, however, the Democrats. But only after the Republicans chose the venue. I see your point, but far better candidates could have been chosen, in my opinion. Guys that did a couple tours come to mind, not a fello who did a few months, and then started smoking dope and talking shit about the government at the earliest opportunity, negotiating with north vietnamese communist leaders, etc. etc. ad infinitum, ad nauseum. Gen. Clark might have been the guy, what happened to him? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/58 "2004-08-30T00:11:12Z")
Insufficient political clout. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2004, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/59 "2004-08-30T05:31:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Sarcasm aside, **Clothahump** , when telling the truth is treason, we no longer have a country to be loyal to. Merely a geographic entity, a set of borders in which we happen to reside. **elucidator** , even though I hate your guts, have driven all night to Nipples, MN, to spit on your father’s grave and have alerted all branches of government that you are a dangerous terrorist, I agree with you. perhaps I can ask the FBI to back off… ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2004, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391/60 "2004-08-30T05:34:57Z")
> [@AZCowboy](#): > > Equine feces. > > I sincerely doubt that Kerry would even be the Democratic nominee if not for his military service. The Republicans chose the battleground here. Well before the Democratic primaries began, the Republicans made it clear that national security and the War on Terror were to be the centerpiece of the re-election campaign strategy. The Democrats knew that they were going to have to go up against the self-proclaimed incumbent “Dubya-A-R president”. Don’t you remember “Mission Accomplished”? > > Had this not been the situation, Dean was a much more likely candidate. Edwards may have had a better shot at the top of the ticket. The caucuses in Iowa went for Kerry for this very reason. None of the other Democratic candidates had the necessary national security foundation to withstand the inevitable assualts from the Republican guerilla tactics. > > It wasn’t Kerry and his campaign that put Vietnam front and center. It was, however, the Democrats. But only after the Republicans chose the venue. I thought it was “Dean all the way” until he over-reacted AT HIS ALMOST NOMINATION. Set me straight. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-vietnam-war-matter-to-us-now/233391.md?page=2)