# Should the West open its borders to Russians fleeing the draft? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [September 25, 2022, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205 "2022-09-25T14:44:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/21 "2022-09-25T22:05:15Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > I don’t have an English language source available, but news this evening is that Russia is closing its borders for men 18-50, so they can’t leave. Give us the non-English source, then. All I’ve read so far is that no one is being prevented from leaving. Lavrov was even questioned about the exodus today and in response made reference to freedom of movement. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/22 "2022-09-25T22:56:23Z")
Don’t forget it’s completely possible for top government spokesmen to say one thing while something totally different is being ordered from the top, and something different yet again is actually happening out in the field. In fact lots of different somethings can be happening in all the different locations around the country. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/23 "2022-09-25T23:03:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > These people are going to be leaving Russia one way or another. The question is just whether it’ll be as invading soldiers or not. Neighboring countries aren’t thinking that way: [https://www.axios.com/2022/09/25/russia-neighbor-close-border](https://www.axios.com/2022/09/25/russia-neighbor-close-border) I think that those who are fleeing Russia would be less likely to commit war crimes than those who might take their place. I guess it depends how Russia reacts when a conscript doesn’t show. Will they do nothing, or will they call up someone else? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/24 "2022-09-25T23:26:40Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I guess it depends how Russia reacts when a conscript doesn’t show. Will they do nothing, or will they call up someone else? Quotas being quotas and bureaucracy being bureaucracy, it’s a good bet they’ll fudge the numbers a bit and call up enough extras to make up whatever their pencils can’t cover up. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/25 "2022-09-26T04:26:46Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > They obviously should be bused to Texas. Well, the locals there seem disinclined to immigrants of the darker hued persuasion, so slamming them with a few thousand families of so white they glow in the dark types. I do believe that those objecting to immigrants seem to dislike those from Central and South America. They don’t seem to say anything about the pasty white European types. Personally? I think they should allow fleeing Russians in, but figure out a depot sort of way to pop them on ships and shuffle them off to the New World somehow. The previous com bloc types I know from gaming online, and visiting Europe in person are generally well spoken, fairly decently educated and nice people. I am rather peeved at Putin in specific, the government in general and if I knew the person specifically I would have pointed words [and with one person in specific something a bit more violent] in mind. I lost a gaming buddy of considerable time in the first week in Kyev. So I am a bit grumpy. However, I like the nifty ‘please desert, let us show you how’ card they supposedly have been passing out. I think there should be some way to extract decent Russians and other nationality soldiers from the situation and limit Putins pool of available cannon fodder. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/26 "2022-09-26T10:11:11Z")
Sure, but in the last couple days _The Guardian_ has carried reports on border crossings at Finland, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, and Mongolia, and hasn’t mentioned that guards on the Russian side are preventing anyone from leaving. So it seems that so far there’s nothing to contradict what “top government spokesmen” are saying. (That said, some individual legislators are indeed calling for the border guards to turn away men of military age. But these calls currently have no legal force.) ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/27 "2022-09-26T10:41:06Z")
like this tweet for its simplicity and “doh!” moment > ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/28 "2022-09-26T11:27:54Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Short answer: no, you couldn’t just walk across that border. I guess that means escaping to Mordor is out too. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/29 "2022-09-26T11:32:10Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > like this tweet for its simplicity and “doh!” moment If only it were all a matter of removing “just one”. There’s a whole “deep state” of securocrat/oligarchs who have no great desire to see a substantive change in direction, even if they just might accept Ukraine as a lost cause. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/30 "2022-09-26T12:08:35Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > The counter-counter-argument is that many of those who chose this moment to flee are not necessarily dissidents or antiwar but just looking to save their own skin. That’s the definition of a refugee. My inclination is to give a hand to political refugees from a brutal regime. Ship em here, to the northeast, where i live. Heck, we have a labor shortage. Maybe we can change our stupid anti-immigrant laws and let them work. I don’t think there’s any real risk of Putin trying to annex Long Island. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/31 "2022-09-29T19:58:33Z")
Russians dodging the draft may not be sufficient evidence to establish refugee status. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/32 "2022-09-29T20:08:43Z")
Looks like the Finnish border will close Russians on tourist visas tonight following the line taken by other Baltic states. Some Baltic countries have large Russian speaking populations that do not see eye to eye with their government. Putin has stirred up trouble in the past and they may be quite nervous of a large influx of Russians without careful checks. > **[Finland to close border to Russian tourists](https://www.politico.eu/article/finland-close-border-frussian-tourists/)** > > Exceptions include Russians traveling for family or work purposes. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/33 "2022-09-29T22:34:08Z")
Yeah, I understand why border countries are cautious. That’s why I suggested the US should take them in. I really don’t think Putin will try to annex Long Island, even if a lot of ethnic Russians live there. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/34 "2022-09-30T21:28:18Z")
Aren’t the Russians and Ukrainians fleeing the same regime; one that is playing poker with their lives? Why would you welcome one and not the other? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/35 "2022-09-30T23:14:17Z")
_Who_ are the Russians leaving? Ethical discussions aside, the first wave of mobilization is allegedly reservists with skills, especially technical skills, already in place. It seems to me keeping Russian forces as depleted of those with existing skills and training as possible is a good thing. It also likely further depletes the Russian economy of some of its productive more educated workers, in numbers greater than the draft alone would (some will leave on the mere possibility of being drafted). ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/36 "2022-10-03T10:33:41Z")
Split this topic on October 3, 2022, 10:33am UTC 4 posts were merged into an existing topic: [Hijack of Russian refugee thread.[Temp name]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hijack-of-russian-refugee-thread-temp-name/972624/23) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/37 "2022-10-01T00:48:20Z")
Googling, over five million Ukrainian refugees went to Poland. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/38 "2022-10-01T00:55:10Z")
That is a whole lot. In a best case scenario, some Ukrainians will have a country to go back to. I don’t think very many anti-Putin refugees will. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/42 "2022-10-03T10:31:21Z")
Split this topic on October 3, 2022, 10:31am UTC 21 posts were split to a new topic: [Hijack of Russian refugee thread.[Temp name]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hijack-of-russian-refugee-thread-temp-name/972624) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205/63 "2022-10-03T10:25:35Z")
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