# Should there be a law against employers threatening employees on how to vote? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 5, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966 "2012-11-05T16:36:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/1 "2012-11-05T16:36:41Z")
There have been several cases where employers have come out and threatened their employees with ramifications if they did not vote in a manner they proscribed. [Major Wisconsin employer warns workers of ‘personal consequences’ if they vote for President Obama](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/25/1150091/-Major-Wisconsin-employer-warns-workers-of-personal-consequences-if-they-vote-for-President-Obama) [Nine CEOs Pushing Workers To Vote For Romney](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/28/ceos-urge-employees-vote-romney_n_2018264.html) [Romney, Business Allies Finish With Strong Argument: Vote With Us, Or You’re Fired](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/03/romney-voter-intimidation-businesses-bain_n_2068827.html) There are some states which have laws on the books against this sort of thing, however I think there should be a federal law on the books. Any time someone with a position of power tries to use that power to persuade people how to vote is at best scandalous and at worst completely anti-American. Some people might scream that it’s just more government oversight… Well, too many business owners have been unable to control themselves. It’s time someone does and it won’t be the threatened workers… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/2 "2012-11-05T16:51:05Z")
I think that if an employer says something like “I will fire you if you vote for ‘X’”, that should be illegal, and I think it is. None of the examples you listed in the OP come close to crossing the line. I’ll note that TDK’s headline is misleading because the “personal consequences” mentioned by the CEO is not from the CEO, but (allegedly) from Obama. The full text of the letter makes that clear. And from your third cite: > [@](#): > > Before the Supreme Court’s 5-4 Citizens United decision, it would have been illegal for a boss to tell an employee that “their job and their future” was on the ballot on Election Day. But the court now considers such electoral pressure an expression of free speech. I believe we have already determined this to be false. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/3 "2012-11-05T16:56:43Z")
From the [slideshow here](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/28/ceos-urge-employees-vote-romney_n_2018264.html#slide=1686897): > [@](#): > > Westgate Resorts CEO David Siegal recently emailed his employees saying that if Obama wins the election, he will be forced to downsize his company. Siegal insists this statement was not a threat and that no employee would be fired for voting for Obama, WKMG Local 6 reports. Oh yeah, not a threat… :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Scott Farmer, CEO of uniform manufacturer Cintas, recently sent an email to his employees saying that if Obama wins the election they may lose their healthcare and even jobs, urging them to vote for Romney. Not a threat? > [@](#): > > Mike White, the CEO of Rite-Hite, a manufacturer of loading dock equipment, told his employees that they would suffer “personal consequences” if Obama is reelected. “Personal consequences?” > [@](#): > > Richard Lacks, CEO of car-parts manufacturer Lacks Enterprises, recently encouraged his employees to vote for Romney, saying that another Obama term would mean higher taxes and lower wages. Lower wages? So these are all hunky dory in your view? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/4 "2012-11-05T16:59:09Z")
“Personal consequences”, from your cite: > [@](#): > > Mike White, the chairman and owner of Rite-Hite, a major Milwaukee manufacturer of industrial equipment, told employees in an email this week that all employees “should understand the personal consequences to them of having our tax rates increase dramatically if President Obama is re-elected, forcing taxpayers to fund President Obama’s future deficits and social programs (including Obamacare), which require bigger government.” Personal consequence from having our tax rates increase. As for the others, I see no reason a CEO should be forbidden from sharing his economic forecast with his employees. He can write a letter to the editor saying exactly the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/5 "2012-11-05T17:00:22Z")
No, I do not think there should be laws against this behavior. Obviously there should be laws against anybody actually firing an employee because of their vote (or their perceived voting habits). But scaring the other side about all the bad shit that will happen if the wrong guy gets elected is sort of part-and-parcel of the whole democracy thing. It’s no different than telling an old person “If Romney wins you’ll lose your Medicare”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/6 "2012-11-05T17:01:01Z")
That’s nice… It should also be illegal. A veiled threat is still a threat. My boss has no business lecturing me on how to vote under any circumstances unless I want to ask them. Period. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/7 "2012-11-05T17:03:24Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > NIt’s no different than telling an old person “If Romney wins you’ll lose your Medicare”. What if it’s the person who is administrating their Medicare benefits who is saying it? You seem to miss the point that an employer has a lot of power over their employees, disproportionately so in many geographic areas or industries. They’re not just some talking head or partisan neighbor. They’re the people who allow them to put bread on the table. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/8 "2012-11-05T17:03:50Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > That’s nice… It should also be illegal. A veiled threat is still a threat. My boss has no business lecturing me on how to vote under any circumstances unless I want to ask them. Period. Can you quote the part of the constitution that supports that view? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/9 "2012-11-05T17:10:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Can you quote the part of the constitution that supports that view? There are [several states with laws on the books](http://www.wvillustrated.com/story/19967632/voter-coercion-election-presents-liability-for-employers), as I said. Do you have a cite that they have been declared unconstitutional? Either you can show me some or you can jump on getting the SCOTUS to address these issues at once. Let me know how the latter goes if you cannot come up with anything on the former. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/10 "2012-11-05T17:10:08Z")
Show me where he threatened to fire anyone for voting for Obama. Go ahead. Show me where he did that. The boss can freely say who he supports and why he supports whomever he supports. He most certainly cannot order an employee to vote for a particular person. The boss in the case you’re reacting to did not order anyone to do anything. ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/11 "2012-11-05T17:10:12Z")
If it were honest it wouldn’t be as bad… I want the employees of this company to know that with Obama winning the election, instead of making $2.5 million next year, I will only make $1 million. As you all know, I won’t take such a decrease. Instead we will hire less people, you will work more, and there will be no pay raises. John Q. CEO ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/12 "2012-11-05T17:12:17Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > What if it’s the person who is administrating their Medicare benefits who is saying it? It’s the President of the United States saying it. > [@](#): > > You seem to miss the point that an employer has a lot of power over their employees, disproportionately so in many geographic areas or industries. They’re not just some talking head or partisan neighbor. They’re the people who allow them to put bread on the table. The problem is that, in a lot of cases (maybe even most) the employer is _also_ a neighbor and a citizen with all of the free speech rights that come with that. I don’t see why they can’t make political statements just because they have firing power. They just can’t use that firing power in a political way. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/13 "2012-11-05T17:13:39Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > What if it’s the person who is administrating their Medicare benefits who is saying it? > > You seem to miss the point that an employer has a lot of power over their employees, disproportionately so in many geographic areas or industries. They’re not just some talking head or partisan neighbor. They’re the people who allow them to put bread on the table. You seem to miss the point that the person administering their Medicare still has to abide by the laws governing the same, not to mention they also have to follow the laws relating to employment and dismissal from such employment. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/14 "2012-11-05T17:18:49Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Show me where he threatened to fire anyone for voting for Obama. Go ahead. Show me where he did that. The boss can freely say who he supports and why he supports whomever he supports. He most certainly cannot order an employee to vote for a particular person. The boss in the case you’re reacting to did not order anyone to do anything. Ah right. Like the guy from the mob who says “Nice store you have here. Would be a real shame to have something happen to it…” Not a threat at all! Just friendly advice from one bidnessman to another… :rolleyes: If I desperately need my job and particularly if I work in an isolated place or niche industry where I would be really screwed financially if I were to lose it, I would take all of those things as threats to my future with the company. I should not have to worry about that when it comes to what I do in the voting booth. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/15 "2012-11-05T17:23:37Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > It’s the President of the United States saying it. Which is not the person handling their Medicare claims any more than the guys who inspect restaurants for code violations handles whether they fire their cook or not. > [@](#): > > The problem is that, in a lot of cases (maybe even most) the employer is _also_ a neighbor and a citizen with all of the free speech rights that come with that. I don’t see why they can’t make political statements just because they have firing power. They just can’t use that firing power in a political way. My company’s political views means fuck-all to me working there. There is a huge difference being told by Mr. Jones across the street and being told by the guys who sign my check political statements. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/16 "2012-11-05T17:28:17Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > There are [several states with laws on the books](http://www.wvillustrated.com/story/19967632/voter-coercion-election-presents-liability-for-employers), as I said. Do you have a cite that they have been declared unconstitutional? > > Either you can show me some or you can jump on getting the SCOTUS to address these issues at once. > > Let me know how the latter goes if you cannot come up with anything on the former. None of the things you quoted in your OP violates any of those laws. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/17 "2012-11-05T17:30:33Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Ah right. Like the guy from the mob who says “Nice store you have here. Would be a real shame to have something happen to it…” Not a threat at all! Just friendly advice from one bidnessman to another… :rolleyes: That is not a valid comparison. In your for instance, the mobster is clearly insinuating that he will take physical action in response to the “bidnessman’s” action, or in your for instance, lack of action. In the actual case, the boss has stated what he believes will happen to his company if a partiuclar person is voted into/out of/retained in office and that action will be a fall-out of the worsened economy. > [@](#): > > If I desperately need my job and particularly if I work in an isolated place or niche industry where I would be really screwed financially if I were to lose it, I would take all of those things as threats to my future with the company. Out of idle curiosity–as opposed to idle speculation–how do you propose the boss manage to discover how the employee votes? For your hypothetical “bidnesman” above, that’s rather easy for the mobster to determine because he’s the one demanding payment. > [@](#): > > I should not have to worry about that when it comes to what I do in the voting booth. Well, given the rhetoric from both parties, I’d imagine that a prospective voter actually does worry what’s going to happen to the economy under both potential outcomes and votes as said prospective voter determines is in his best interests. And, just for fun, I’m going to ask you yet again: How do you propose the boss in the actual case determine how the employee votes? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/18 "2012-11-05T17:32:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > None of the things you quoted in your OP violates any of those laws. That is debatable. But regardless, you admit that it’s not unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/19 "2012-11-05T17:36:37Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > That is not a valid comparison. In your for instance, the mobster is clearly insinuating that he will take physical action in response to the “bidnessman’s” action, or in your for instance, lack of action. In the actual case, the boss has stated what he believes will happen to his company if a partiuclar person is voted into/out of/retained in office and that action will be a fall-out of the worsened economy. In these cases, the employer is clearly insinuating that their jobs could be in jeopardy if the wrong fella wins. > [@](#): > > Out of idle curiosity–as opposed to idle speculation–how do you propose the boss manage to discover how the employee votes? For your hypothetical “bidnesman” above, that’s rather easy for the mobster to determine because he’s the one demanding payment. Why should a worker have to chance it? > [@](#): > > Well, given the rhetoric from both parties, I’d imagine that a prospective voter actually does worry what’s going to happen to the economy under both potential outcomes and votes as said prospective voter determines is in his best interests. An employer has no business as to how their employees vote. This isn’t hard. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966/20 "2012-11-05T17:39:40Z")
While voting is secret, registration for party affiliation is not, intimidation on those grounds is definitely possible and wrong so I can see a case for making it illegal for an employer to push any kind of political viewpoint. Of course I also think churches doing it is bullshit too, but would draw the line at legislating that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-law-against-employers-threatening-employees-on-how-to-vote/639966.md?page=2)