# Should there be a massive gun owner/supporter database? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 21, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802 "2013-08-21T14:50:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/1 "2013-08-21T14:50:25Z")
Should there be a national database containing personal information about gun owners, people that attend gun safety classes and people that attend gun shows? There are those that say that such a database could be useful, but I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/2 "2013-08-21T14:51:41Z")
Yes. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/3 "2013-08-21T14:54:16Z")
Erm, uh… I’d like to see guns treated like cars. Registration at the state level, required insurance, etc. This would include a fingerprint as required for a driver’s license (in this state). No need to record who takes a driving class or browses car enthusiast websites. Gun show attendance is tricky- anecdotally, there’s a lot of lawbreaking at some of them. It’s the reverse polarity of a Grateful Dead show, and we bust Deadheads routinely. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/4 "2013-08-21T15:03:35Z")
What, exactly, would such a database be useful _for_? Given that it would cost taxpayer money to create and maintain it, there would have be some benefit that can be articulated, or it should be opposed simply for being wasteful. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/5 "2013-08-21T15:06:36Z")
It would be useful for massive gun confiscation, but not much else. Furthermore, gun confiscation wouldn’t be possible without such a database. So, even if the database did some good to justify it’s huge cost and privacy concerns it’s still something any second amendment supporter will oppose. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/6 "2013-08-21T15:07:54Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > What, exactly, would such a database be useful _for_? Given that it would cost taxpayer money to create and maintain it, there would have be some benefit that can be articulated, or it should be opposed simply for being wasteful. The people supporting this say that it won’t cost the taxpayers any money because the information will be gathered by a private company. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/7 "2013-08-21T15:14:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The people supporting this say that it won’t cost the taxpayers any money because the information will be gathered by a private company. WHich is even scarier when you think about it - and these things ALWAYS cost the taxpayer money - maybe not in a ‘tax’ sense, but in addtional costs for the items, etc. And no - I do not think there should be a ‘massive gun owner/supporter’ database - ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/8 "2013-08-21T15:15:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The people supporting this say that it won’t cost the taxpayers any money because the information will be gathered by a private company. In that case, it will be woefully incomplete. If someone hanging out at the door of a gun shows asks entrants for their personal information, he’s going to be told to piss off 99 times for every time someone indulges him. Likewise, I don’t see how a private company is going to be able to compile a list of gun owners or people that attend gun safety classes. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/9 "2013-08-21T15:16:50Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > In that case, it will be woefully incomplete. If someone hanging out at the door of a gun shows asks entrants for their personal information, he’s going to be told to piss off 99 times for every time someone indulges him. Likewise, I don’t see how a private company is going to be able to compile a list of gun owners or people that attend gun safety classes. If they could do it, or made a massive attempt to do it, would you object to it? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/10 "2013-08-21T15:16:53Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Likewise, I don’t see how a private company is going to be able to compile a list of gun owners or people that attend gun safety classes. Maybe they run the classes themselves, or something. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/11 "2013-08-21T15:17:24Z")
I have another idea. Why don’t we have a massive database on everyone’s religion and the religious background of their ancestors? Seems that it might be nice to find out that stuff about your neighbors and since we have freedom of religion here right now, it shouldn’t cause too many problems. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/12 "2013-08-21T15:22:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If they could do it, or made a massive attempt to do it, would you object to it? Meaning, they have like an 800 number to call and give the name of someone they know who owns a gun, send people to gun shows to ask people their info, things like that? If so, then no, I don’t object, anyone is within their rights to record information. I don’t see any value to such an undertaking, though, and the database will be wildly incomplete and inaccurate, but if it’s not illegal and doesn’t cost any taxpayer money, they can knock themselves out. > [@Steve MB](#): > > Maybe they run the classes themselves, or something. I could see that, but they’d have a hard time cornering the market, especially with the whole we-put-you-in-a-database thing. In my area, there are dozens, maybe hundreds, of people who offer concealed-carry classes, and even more who can conduct hunter-safety training (to get the “orange card” to qualify for Kentucky’s hunting license). For the database to be complete, this private firm would have to be the sole entity offering these classes. I find that unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/13 "2013-08-21T15:23:18Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Maybe they run the classes themselves, or something. Maybe they do, at that. The people that think that gathering all this data is a great idea isthe NRA. Not only do they think it’s a great idea, [but they’re already doing it.](http://www.buzzfeed.com/stevefriess/how-the-nra-built-a-massive-secret-database-of-gun-owners)This a one of the reasons why I am for gun rights but still oppose the NRA. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/14 "2013-08-21T15:25:45Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Erm, uh… I’d like to see guns treated like cars. You mean no licencing, no registration and no tracking or controls unless you’re using them on government funded infrastructure? ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/15 "2013-08-21T15:27:39Z")
You have to register purchase of an automobile in this state. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/16 "2013-08-21T15:37:27Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It would be useful for massive gun confiscation, but not much else. Or for identifying stolen guns and making sure people who aren’t supposed to buy guns don’t have them. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/17 "2013-08-21T15:37:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Maybe they do, at that. > The people that think that gathering all this data is a great idea isthe NRA. Not only do they think it’s a great idea, [but they’re already doing it.](http://www.buzzfeed.com/stevefriess/how-the-nra-built-a-massive-secret-database-of-gun-owners)This a one of the reasons why I am for gun rights but still oppose the NRA. For them, it’s undoubtedly a fine marketing tool. I don’t find it particularly shocking or wrong, though. If you do, may I ask why? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/18 "2013-08-21T15:37:32Z")
From Czarcasm’s link: > [@](#): > > That database has been built through years of acquiring gun permit registration lists from state and county offices, gathering names of new owners from the thousands of gun-safety classes taught by NRA-certified instructors and by buying lists of attendees of gun shows, subscribers to gun magazines, and more, BuzzFeed has learned. I certainly have a consistency problem here with the NRA objecting to the Federal government building a list from the same non-NRA sources it’s used to build its own list. I’d say the NRA should be free to do whatever it wants with the lists of persons who’ve taken its gun safety classes (use such lists for their own purposes, but keep them from the Feds), except for the part where many states mandate that firearms licensees take the NRA’s courses. To the extent that the NRA is acting as an adjunct of state or local governments, its records should have the same accessibility - to the Feds, the NRA’s political arm, etc. - that similar state and local records have. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/19 "2013-08-21T15:46:19Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > You mean no licencing, no registration and no tracking or controls unless you’re using them on government funded infrastructure? Also, should gun licenses be as near universal as drivers’ licenses are? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802/20 "2013-08-21T15:50:54Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > … except for the part where many states mandate that firearms licensees take the NRA’s courses. Which states do this and for what purpose? I think this statement is a bit vague with the term “firearms licensees”. Can you clarify? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-a-massive-gun-owner-supporter-database/666802.md?page=2)