# Should there be more conforminity in state gun regulations?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [November 13, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470 "2015-11-13T16:14:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/21 "2015-11-13T18:45:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Let us suppose, for the purpose of this thread, that the goal was to change the regulations so that the gunrunning that was described in the article I linked to in the OP was made more difficult.
That would do it, since local purchases would now be as barrier-free as the remote ones, reducing the arbitrage opportunities significantly.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/22 "2015-11-13T18:46:52Z")
In your first link, I read this:
> [@](#):
>
> In giving probation with no jail time to a Milwaukee man charged with 55 counts of buying firearms with fake identification and dealing them without a license, a federal judge delivered a message:
>
> “People kill people,” U.S. District Rudolph Randa said, echoing a common gun rights slogan. “Guns don’t kill people.”
, which just reinforced my thinking that you have come up with a good part of the solution. There is definitely more that can be done, but “patriotic” crap like this has got to be stopped.
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### Author:  [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/23 "2015-11-13T18:47:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Let us suppose, for the purpose of this thread, that the goal was to change the regulations so that the gunrunning that was described in the article I linked to in the OP was made more difficult.
More difficult, or less prevalent?
> [@](#):
>
> By contrast, the majority of guns used in crimes in Texas, Georgia and other states with more lenient gun laws are purchased in-state.
So states with more lenient gun laws didn’t see as large a gunrunning problem.
I also agree completely with \*\*JXJohns \*\*post #19.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/24 "2015-11-13T18:53:02Z")
> [@Bone](#):
>
> So states with more lenient gun laws didn’t see as large a gunrunning problem.
If you look at the map, states with more lenient gun laws _cause_ gunrunning problems.
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### Author:  [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/25 "2015-11-13T18:55:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> If you look at the map, states with more lenient gun laws _cause_ gunrunning problems.
I think economics is causing the gunrunning problem. Arbitrage and all as Bricker mentions in post #21. Eliminate the benefit from arbitrage and gunrunning should decrease significantly.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/26 "2015-11-13T19:03:31Z")
> [@Bone](#):
>
> I think economics is causing the gunrunning problem. Arbitrage and all as Bricker mentions in post #21. Eliminate the benefit from arbitrage and gunrunning should decrease significantly.
So…the main problem is that guns aren’t cheap and easily available?
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### Author:  [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/27 "2015-11-13T19:10:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> If you look at the map, states with more lenient gun laws _cause_ gunrunning problems.
They do? Why is it not state’s with stricter than average laws that cause the problem by creating an economic incentive for criminals? A more neutral way is simply that the differences in laws create an incentive to smuggle across state borders.
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> As long as the federal ones were tighter than the lowest state regulations, then the _overall_ level would be higher, wouldn’t it?
You were the one that asked about doing this without a firestorm. A federal law that’s more restrictive than the laws supported by the populace of the least gun friendly state is pretty much a recipe for a firestorm.
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### Author:  [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/28 "2015-11-13T19:17:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> So…the main problem is that guns aren’t cheap and easily available?
People are willing to risk jail time to be the middle man in the transaction and pocket the green. They know what they are doing is illegal, yet the cash involved motivates them to break the law. This includes licensed gun dealers in some cases. Make them pay for it when caught. That’s a good start.
A great example, there are severe penalties for converting a semi auto gun to full auto. 10 years in the Federal pen, tax evasion penalties, hundreds of thousands in fines, etc. It’s a big risk just to make a gun waste ammo quicker while your friends watch and say “kewl”. Not saying that it doesn’t happen, but you just don’t hear about it very often considering the 100’s of millions of guns in circulation today.
Make the risk of an illegal sale out of state far outweigh the reward, and the problem solves itself.
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### Author:  [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/29 "2015-11-13T19:18:53Z")
We could also solve the problem of people getting shot by encouraging them to just shoot themselves. Then no crime has been committed.
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### Author:  [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/30 "2015-11-13T21:40:10Z")
What exactly is the problem you’re trying to solve here?
Seems to me this is rank protectionism. Solution: Get rid of the tariffs.
But it also seems to me that the OP’s goal is _more_ protectionism. Good luck with that. Maybe we could get Donald Trump to put up one of those walls he’s always talking about around New York. That should keep the guns and criminals out.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/31 "2015-11-13T22:13:11Z")
> [@DrCube](#):
>
> What exactly is the problem you’re trying to solve here?
Gun traffickers getting around state gun laws. You do believe in a state’s right to determine their own gun laws, as long as they don’t conflict with federal law, don’t you? Now, if my proposal to stiffen federal laws is offensive to you, then any counter-proposal to make a state laws equally weak and ineffective should be just as offensive, I would say.
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### Author:  [@MrTuffPaws](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrTuffPaws)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/32 "2015-11-13T23:08:27Z")
I think a lot of people in this thread have the assumption that regulations would be more strict with conformity.
Yes there should be conformity. If I cross state lines while carrying a firearm, I could become an instant criminal depending on my geographical location. I have done nothing wrong, save for changing my physical location. State level restrictions should be overturned with any power left in the hands of the Feds. After all, the 2nd was incorporated to all states, not just the ones that happen to respect 2nd rights.
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### Author:  [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)
#### Post date: [November 15, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/33 "2015-11-15T21:06:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> The New York Times has just come out with an article about [how gun traffickers get around state gun laws,](http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/12/us/gun-traffickers-smuggling-state-gun-laws.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0) smuggling guns from states with few restrictions to states with greater restrictions. Their map outlines the routes taken, with one pipeline even going from Florida to Puerto Rico.
> Too many times I’ve heard the argument that more restrictive gun laws are useless so why bother to put them in, but I think this points out _why_ they are not working-No state(Hawaii excluded;)) is an island. Is greater conformity in gun laws a possibility without setting off a firestorm of scare campaigns?
I’m all for a single national gun control policy but I somehow get the feeling that what you really want is more gun control for places like Utah while letting California keep all of its ridiculous gun control rules. IOW, “greater conformity in gun laws” usually really means just more gun control.
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### Author:  [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)
#### Post date: [November 15, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/34 "2015-11-15T21:07:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> As long as the federal ones were tighter than the lowest state regulations, then the _overall_ level would be higher, wouldn’t it?
yep. you are just asking how we can force more gun control on states that don’t want it without giving up any of the overly strict gun control laws in states that never saw a gun control law they didn’t like.
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### Author:  [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)
#### Post date: [November 15, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/35 "2015-11-15T21:10:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> So what _should_ be aimed for, if there is to be any conformity?
repeal all state and local laws through federal pre-emption and pass a national gun control regime that includes licensing and registration.
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### Author:  [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)
#### Post date: [November 15, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/36 "2015-11-15T21:13:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> If you look at the map, states with more lenient gun laws _cause_ gunrunning problems.
Is the cocaine problem caused by the farmers in Latin America or the consumers in America?
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [November 15, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/37 "2015-11-15T21:50:26Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#):
>
> Is the cocaine problem caused by the farmers in Latin America or the consumers in America?
Do those transporting and selling the goods hold no responsibility whatsoever in your world?
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### Author:  [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2015, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/38 "2015-11-16T01:22:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Do those transporting and selling the goods hold no responsibility whatsoever in your world?
Is that the same world where you missed post 11 and 17 that stated those transporting and selling are committing federal crimes?
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### Author:  [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2015, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/39 "2015-11-16T02:52:54Z")
What everyone seems to forget about laws is that only law abiding people follow laws. Someone who is intent on committing a crime with a firearm will not be deterred by a law making it illegal to procure a firearm. That’s not to say we shouldn’t have laws that TRY to keep bad people from getting their hands on guns, but you’re naive to think that just passing a law will have any effect on keeping things out of someone’s hands. Didn’t work for drugs, won’t work for guns either.
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### Author:  [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2015, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-more-conforminity-in-state-gun-regulations/737470/40 "2015-11-16T05:11:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Do those transporting and selling the goods hold no responsibility whatsoever in your world?
Of course they do. Gunrunners are bad people, but its a bit silly to say that lax gun laws in one area are the cause of gunrunning.
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