# Should there be opposite-sex role models for children of gay parents? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990 "2009-05-01T17:14:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/41 "2009-05-02T18:52:42Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > If you really want to split hairs, Jesus wasn’t raised by his _father_. No matter how you look at it, his was _not_ a traditional family unit. But no matter how you look at it there was a Father \*figure \*there for the vast majority of his childhood. It’s not splitting hairs. Splitting hairs is when you are imprecise by a small margin. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/42 "2009-05-02T19:11:38Z")
But no matter how you look at it, the family of Jesus is not the model that the “one man, one woman” crowd is pushing. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/43 "2009-05-02T19:31:20Z")
Jesus had two daddies. Someone should make this into a bumper sticker. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/44 "2009-05-02T19:36:44Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > But no matter how you look at it, the family of Jesus is not the model that the “one man, one woman” crowd is pushing. A bit of a stretch. You guys seem to be hellbent on trying to make this idea fit even though it doesn’t at all. Jesus had a stepfather for all of his childhood. As Polycarp pointed out, we don’t have a record of what Joseph did after Jesus was 12, not that he died when Jesus was 12, but yes, technically Jesus was conceived out of wedlock. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/45 "2009-05-02T19:55:34Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Jesus had two daddies. > > Someone should make this into a bumper sticker. This is Saturday’s thread winner – everybody can log off now. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/46 "2009-05-02T20:15:46Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > It always amazes me that the anti-aborftion crowd who is so intent on forcing single woman and woman with abusive partners to give birth are so against gay adoption because “children need a mother and a father.” I hope you’re just singling out the extreme end of the pro-life movement because a lot of people who are anti-abortion _are_ in favor of adoptions by gay couples. ---
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/47 "2009-05-02T21:26:12Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > I want to point out that gays and lesbians don’t raise their children in bell jars, sealed away from contact with opposite-gender people. What, no [bonsai kids](http://web.archive.org/web/20060222231408/www.bonsaikitten.com/g4.html)? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/48 "2009-05-03T02:48:42Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Jesus had two daddies. > > Someone should make this into a bumper sticker. I want one if they do. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/49 "2009-05-03T03:39:00Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > I hope you’re just singling out the extreme end of the pro-life movement because a lot of people who are anti-abortion _are_ in favor of adoptions by gay couples. Do you have any poll numbers on that ? I’d expect a major overlap between the anti-gays and the anti-woman religious activists. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/50 "2009-05-03T05:45:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Do you have any poll numbers on that ? I’d expect a major overlap between the anti-gays and the anti-woman religious activists. There don’t seem to be many polls about whether or not people are in favor of allowing gay couples to adopt. However since you rarely hear people say things like “It’s okay if gays marry, but adopt!?”: CBS says **54%** of Americans [are pro-life](http://www.lifenews.com/nat3389.html), and ABC says **49%** [are pro-gay marriage](http://www.mydd.com/story/2009/4/30/16837/5707) & **57%** pro-civil union, so clearly there have to be other people like me who are both. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/51 "2009-05-03T05:54:01Z")
MAYBE puberty, perhaps? I could see if you were a girl, you might want to ask, say, an aunt about your period instead of your dad. (I’d have died of embarassment at that age). Or a boy would rather talk to his cousin about erections and wet dreams. That’s the only thing I can remotely think of. “Girl talk”, or whatever. But that would come up even if you have single parents, so that’s easily solved. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/52 "2009-05-03T06:04:57Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > MAYBE puberty, perhaps? I could see if you were a girl, you might want to ask, say, an aunt about your period instead of your dad. (I’d have died of embarassment at that age). Or a boy would rather talk to his cousin about erections and wet dreams. > > That’s the only thing I can remotely think of. “Girl talk”, or whatever. But that would come up even if you have single parents, so that’s easily solved. I thought that was what Judy Blume books were for. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/53 "2009-05-03T21:56:59Z")
Heh. I can see NOBODY to disagree with on this thread. Amazing - a thread about homosexuality _and_ parenting, two handbag-worthy topics, and everyone’s in broad agreement! 😃 Anyway, I’m raising my daughter with my female partner and I do make an effort to keep consistent, positive male role models in her life, which is more than I can say for some of her friends with straight parents. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/54 "2009-05-04T02:31:19Z")
Are you making fun of broads, **scifisam2009**? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/55 "2009-05-04T03:00:49Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > Heh. I can see NOBODY to disagree with on this thread. Amazing - a thread about homosexuality _and_ parenting, two handbag-worthy topics, and everyone’s in broad agreement! 😃 > > Anyway, I’m raising my daughter with my female partner and I do make an effort to keep consistent, positive male role models in her life, which is more than I can say for some of her friends with straight parents. There is something to be said for people who choose to parent under less traditional circumstances. We are adoptive parents of an Asian child - so it thrills us to have Asian role models for him. We give him opportunities to explore his heritage we - the white people - wouldn’t ordinarily look for (and which he is not at all interested in, but we keep asking). Gay people don’t generally become parents accidentally. They don’t become parents because everyone around them expects them to, or (generally) because their mother is bugging them for grandchildren. Like the rest of us less than fertile folk, they become parents after long and hard thought (or at least logistical complications beyond ‘we went on vacation and I forgot my diaphragm.’) That means that most people who parent under non-tradition methods actually make efforts to say 'can I give my kid a male (or, in our case, Asian) role model or two. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/56 "2009-05-04T12:25:26Z")
It would be very hard to corrolate the stats for the anti-abortion anti-gay adoption crowd. I image a lot of fundamentalists are anti-both. I tell you one thing: anyone who thinks that a single woman is better off having the child and keeping it (which I do), and doesn’t think children should be removed from newly single parents, but doesn’t support single and gay adoption because "kids need both a father and a mother) is a hypocrit write large. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/57 "2009-05-04T12:34:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The question I’d ask is how many exceptions does it take to abandon the idea, i.e. how many healthy children raised by gay couples and how many screwed-up children raised by straight couples would we need to demonstrate that gay or straight parents isn’t by itself a critical factor. That’s a good question. Ideally, we would have complete and thorough information on the relative stability of the various parental gender combinations. Ideally. I’m not about to propose any grand experiments to collect this sort of data, though. At the risk of being mocked (“What about the children??? Waaaaah!!!”) I’d be very uncomfortable with the idea of any social engineering experiments when a child’s welfare is at stake. “But we already know that gender won’t make a whit of difference!” some would exclaim. That’s supposition though, not established fact. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/58 "2009-05-04T18:44:46Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Jesus had two daddies. > > Someone should make this into a bumper sticker. OMFG! I am using that soooooo often now. Kudos, mostro! ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/59 "2009-05-05T04:14:27Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Jesus had two daddies. > > Someone should make this into a bumper sticker. Ask and [ye shall receive](http://www.stampandshout.com/shop/bumper-stickers/jesus-had-two-daddies.php). ETA: [Some people made t-shirts](http://www.zazzle.com/jesus_had_two_daddies_tshirt-235150800022215924) [and other stuff](http://www.outspokenclothing.com/cgi-bin/cpshop.cgi/lgbt/outspokenstore/468627) ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990/60 "2009-05-05T07:17:17Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Ideally, we would have complete and thorough information on the relative stability of the various parental gender combinations. Ideally. I’m not about to propose any grand experiments to collect this sort of data, though. I don’t have cites at hand, but at my training to do interventions in high schools I’ve found out that apparently this is a very thoroughly ploughed field. Oh wait, I lie. [Here’s a broad-based metastudy](http://www.familypride.org/blog/CanadianStudy.pdf) (massive .pdf): > [@](#): > > …the vast majority of studies show that children living with two mothers and children living with a mother and father have the same levels and qualities of social competence. … The very limited body of research on children with two gay fathers supports this same conclusion. … Given the currently available literature, an objective evaluation of empirical research supports only one conclusion: Whether a child’s two parents are heterosexual or lesbian or gay has no significant discernible impact on a child’s social competence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-there-be-opposite-sex-role-models-for-children-of-gay-parents/494990.md?page=4)