# Should these 5 "bikini baristas" be charged with prostitution?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [September 24, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429 "2009-09-24T23:02:52Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/1 "2009-09-24T23:02:52Z")
…'cuz that’s exactly what appears to be happening.
[http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33003900/ns/us\_news-weird\_news/?GT1=43001](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33003900/ns/us_news-weird_news/?GT1=43001)
Essentially, these five (hot) young entrepreneurs are making a bit of tip money on the side by flashing vag, butt, and boobs during their regular gig of serving up drive-thru espresso in bikinis, and are now being charged with prostitution.
Is there some Washington state definition of “prostitution” which includes flashing for tips, but with no actual sex involved? I mean, I have seen ZERO mention of fellatio, intercourse, or, indeed, any kind of physical contact with the clientele.
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### Author:  [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/2 "2009-09-24T23:08:05Z")
> [@Ogre](#):
>
> I mean, I have seen ZERO mention of fellatio, intercourse, or, indeed, any kind of physical contact with the clientele.
It’s there, they just cleverly hid it in the first sentence of the article (and again in the second paragraph).
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### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/3 "2009-09-24T23:08:23Z")
> [@Ogre](#):
>
> Is there some Washington state definition of “prostitution” which includes flashing for tips, but with no actual sex involved? I mean, I have seen ZERO mention of fellatio, intercourse, or, indeed, any kind of physical contact with the clientele.
The very first paragraph says that clients were touching the women’s breasts and posteriors.
And no, I would probably not list such acts as “prostitution” personally, though I guess that must be how it is defined by Washington state law, so yes they should be charged with it (I guess).
I just wonder how many times the undercover cop had to go back before he was really truly certain that they were doing naughty things. 😉
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### Author:  [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2009, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/4 "2009-09-24T23:09:36Z")
> [@Ogre](#):
>
> …'cuz that’s exactly what appears to be happening.
>
> [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33003900/ns/us\_news-weird\_news/?GT1=43001](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33003900/ns/us_news-weird_news/?GT1=43001)
>
> Essentially, these five (hot) young entrepreneurs are making a bit of tip money on the side by flashing vag, butt, and boobs during their regular gig of serving up drive-thru espresso in bikinis, and are now being charged with prostitution.
>
> Is there some Washington state definition of “prostitution” which includes flashing for tips, but with no actual sex involved? I mean, I have seen ZERO mention of fellatio, intercourse, or, indeed, any kind of physical contact with the clientele.
The eighth word in that article is “touch”.
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### Author:  [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/5 "2009-09-24T23:14:49Z")
:smack: Well, shit. Sorry.
OK, so the debate remains, I suppose. SHOULD just touching be included in the definition for prostitution?
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2009, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/6 "2009-09-24T23:36:10Z")
> [@Ogre](#):
>
> :smack: Well, shit. Sorry.
>
> OK, so the debate remains, I suppose. SHOULD just touching be included in the definition for prostitution?
Depends on what you’re touching them _with_, I suppose.
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### Author:  [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2009, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/7 "2009-09-24T23:40:08Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> Depends on what you’re touching them _with_, I suppose.
A 10 foot Euphonious Pole?
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### Author:  [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/8 "2009-09-25T00:33:24Z")
> [@Ogre](#):
>
> :smack: Well, shit. Sorry.
>
> OK, so the debate remains, I suppose. SHOULD just touching be included in the definition for prostitution?
I, uhm, have heard that you aren’t supposed to put your hands on the strippers when getting a lap dance. That would leave me to believe that somewhere on the continuum is a line of touching the fun zones, and by crossing that line you engage in sexual acts.
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### Author:  [@Anonomiss\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anonomiss_P)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/9 "2009-09-25T01:00:48Z")
Ok, as a former prostitute, to make sure my “johns” were not law enforcement, I would ask them to touch either my boobs or my crotch. To my knowledge, officers wont touch you. I’ve never had a problem.
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### Author:  [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/10 "2009-09-25T01:09:11Z")
> [@Anonomiss\_P](#):
>
> Ok, as a former prostitute, to make sure my “johns” were not law enforcement, I would ask them to touch either my boobs or my crotch. To my knowledge, officers wont touch you. I’ve never had a problem.
I Am Not A Police Officer, but that sounds like a myth along the lines of “undercover cops have to admit it if you ask them if they’re a cop”.
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### Author:  [@Discipline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discipline)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/11 "2009-09-25T01:10:41Z")
> [@Algher](#):
>
> I, uhm, have heard that you aren’t supposed to put your hands on the strippers when getting a lap dance.
Apparently I have paid for prostitution. Oops.
Good to know.
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### Author:  [@Anonomiss\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anonomiss_P)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/12 "2009-09-25T01:15:19Z")
> [@Colophon](#):
>
> I Am Not A Police Officer, but that sounds like a myth along the lines of “undercover cops have to admit it if you ask them if they’re a cop”.
Whatever, just sharing my personal experience.
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### Author:  [@Surbey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surbey)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/13 "2009-09-25T01:20:48Z")
> [@Colophon](#):
>
> I Am Not A Police Officer, but that sounds like a myth along the lines of “undercover cops have to admit it if you ask them if they’re a cop”.
Officers do not have to tell you they are cops if they do want to. You are correct. However, what she is referring to is something a police officer is more than likely NOT going to do. There are instances of undercover cops having to do drugs in order to keep their cover or participating in other acts to keep hidden. However, I’d imagine most officers would not do it. Depends on how desperate they are for the bust I suppose.
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/14 "2009-09-25T01:23:03Z")
> [@Algher](#):
>
> I, uhm, have heard that you aren’t supposed to put your hands on the strippers when getting a lap dance. That would leave me to believe that somewhere on the continuum is a line of touching the fun zones, and by crossing that line you engage in sexual acts.
True, but even the degree to which the rule is enforced (a.k.a “mileage”) itself often varies according to the club and the dancer . So it can happen that a dancer will offer that an extra generous tip, plus a separate one for the bouncer, will allow for touching; but the club is usually expected to officially advocate the no-touching rule.
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### Author:  [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/15 "2009-09-25T01:23:56Z")
The “Grab n Go”. Should have seen that coming.
FWIW, here in Tampa you’re not only allowed but encouraged to touch the strippers, although that varies by establishment.
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### Author:  [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/16 "2009-09-25T01:26:55Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#):
>
> The “Grab n Go”. Should have seen that coming.
>
> FWIW, here in Tampa you’re not only allowed but encouraged to touch the strippers, although that varies by establishment.
They have a big sign at the city limit, right by \*the BPOE welcome you to Tampa
!\*
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### Author:  [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/17 "2009-09-25T01:28:48Z")
You know, I can’t help but think there’s something definitely wrong, or at least very schyzophrenic, about the fact that requiring your waitresses to dress like whores to sell coffee is legal and perfectly OK while them doing some actual whoring is illegal and gets complaints.
Make up your goddamn mind, America !
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### Author:  [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/18 "2009-09-25T01:33:26Z")
> [@Surbey](#):
>
> Depends on how desperate they are for the bust I suppose.
I don’t know about the vice cops, but I’m _always_ desperate for the bust. 😉
Edited to add: Gah! How can I post to this thread without drawing attention to the one linked in my signature! :smack:
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/19 "2009-09-25T01:57:53Z")
> [@Hamlet](#):
>
> A 10 foot Euphonious Pole?
\ It’s not **that** big.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2009, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/20 "2009-09-25T10:21:12Z")
The relevant laws are:
> [@](#):
>
> RCW 9A.88.030 - Prostitution.
>
> (1) A person is guilty of prostitution if such person engages or agrees or offers to engage in sexual conduct with another person in return for a fee.
>
> (2) For purposes of this section, “sexual conduct” means “sexual intercourse” or “sexual contact,” both as defined in chapter 9A.44 RCW.
>
> (3) Prostitution is a misdemeanor.
> [@](#):
>
> RCW 9A.44.010
> Definitions.
>
> As used in this chapter:
>
> (1) “Sexual intercourse” (a) has its ordinary meaning and occurs upon any penetration, however slight, and
>
> (b) Also means any penetration of the vagina or anus however slight, by an object, when committed on one person by another, whether such persons are of the same or opposite sex, except when such penetration is accomplished for medically recognized treatment or diagnostic purposes, and
>
> (c) Also means any act of sexual contact between persons involving the sex organs of one person and the mouth or anus of another whether such persons are of the same or opposite sex.
>
> (2) “Sexual contact” means any touching of the sexual or other intimate parts of a person done for the purpose of gratifying sexual desire of either party or a third party.
So touching somebody’s breasts or buttocks in return for a fee is prostitution according to Washington law. And watching two of the women touch each other would also qualify.
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