# Should these 5 "bikini baristas" be charged with prostitution? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 24, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429 "2009-09-24T23:02:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/21 "2009-09-25T12:38:01Z")
> [@Anonomiss\_P](#): > > Ok, as a former prostitute, to make sure my “johns” were not law enforcement, I would ask them to touch either my boobs or my crotch. To my knowledge, officers wont touch you. I’ve never had a problem. Just so you know, there is no legal bar to an undercover officer touching you as described and then arresting you after you agreed to to sex for money. However, the majority of police departments have guidelines that forbid their officers from doing this. In [this article](http://www.policeone.com/investigations/articles/1883333-N-M-undercover-officers-naked-massage-criticized/) discussing Albuquerque, we learn: > [@](#): > > There is no precise Albuquerque police policy regarding physical contact with suspected prostitutes. Speaking about the Young case last month, Deputy Chief Kevin McCabe said undercover officers are not allowed to touch a suspect’s bare breasts to convince the person they are not a police officer. > > McCabe said officers can touch the suspect’s clothed breasts in such situations. Beyond those guidelines, the issue is largely a judgment call made by individual officers. But this isn’t true everywhere. In [Spotsylvania County, Virginia](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/12/AR2006021200943.html): > [@](#): > > …as part of a campaign by the sheriff’s office to root out prostitution in the massage parlor business, detectives have been receiving sexual services from “masseuses.” During several visits to Moon Spa on Plank Road last month, detectives allowed women to perform sexual acts on them on four occasions and once left a $350 tip, according to court papers. > > Spotsylvania Sheriff Howard D. Smith said that the practice is not new and that only unmarried detectives are assigned to such cases. Most prostitutes are careful not to say anything incriminating, so sexual contact is necessary, he said. > > “If I thought we could get the conviction without that, we wouldn’t allow it,” Smith said. “If you want to make them, this has to be done.” The issue here is public perception, though, not legality – four days after the Washington Post ran the story, Sheriff Smith announced that “public reaction” caused him to decide to suspend the tactic. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/22 "2009-09-25T12:43:15Z")
> [@Surbey](#): > > Officers do not have to tell you they are cops if they do want to. You are correct. However, what she is referring to is something a police officer is more than likely NOT going to do. There are instances of undercover cops having to do drugs in order to keep their cover or participating in other acts to keep hidden. However, I’d imagine most officers would not do it. **_Depends on how desperate they are for the bust I suppose_.** I see what you did there. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/23 "2009-09-25T13:06:30Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > You know, I can’t help but think there’s something definitely wrong, or at least very schyzophrenic, about the fact that requiring your waitresses to dress like whores to sell coffee is legal and perfectly OK while them doing some actual whoring is illegal and gets complaints. > > Make up your goddamn mind, America ! I agree. The dichotomy between how sexualized our society is and how puritanical we are when it actually comes to sexual acts is all kinds of bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/24 "2009-09-25T14:02:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The relevant laws are:So touching somebody’s breasts or buttocks in return for a fee is prostitution according to Washington law. And watching two of the women touch each other would also qualify. [These DC women](http://hollabackdc.wordpress.com/) will be thrilled. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/25 "2009-09-25T15:10:38Z")
> [@Anonomiss\_P](#): > > Ok, as a former prostitute, to make sure my “johns” were not law enforcement, I would ask them to touch either my boobs or my crotch. I wonder if you could clarify how this worked (& the process in general, FTM). At which point did you ask them to touch you? Had you already made clear what you were proposing? If so, wouldn’t that be solicitation already? And if not, under what pretext were you asking them to touch you? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/26 "2009-09-25T15:26:53Z")
> [@Anonomiss\_P](#): > > Ok, as a former prostitute, to make sure my “johns” were not law enforcement, I would ask them to touch either my **boobs** … > [@Surbey](#): > > However, I’d imagine most officers would not do it. Depends on how desperate they are for the \*\*bust \*\*I suppose. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Anonomiss\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e99b99/32.png) [@Anonomiss\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anonomiss_P)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/27 "2009-09-25T17:33:38Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I wonder if you could clarify how this worked (& the process in general, FTM). > > At which point did you ask them to touch you? Had you already made clear what you were proposing? If so, wouldn’t that be solicitation already? And if not, under what pretext were you asking them to touch you? Ok, most of the time a guy would pick me up, we would get into light conversation, exchange names, flirt lightly, and dance around it, until I thought it was appropriate to take things a step further, and see if he was serious. I would ask him to give me a kiss or fondle me. Its not something that can be explained, and every time was a little different. Its not foolproof, and being under the influence affected things as you could imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/28 "2009-09-25T17:39:26Z")
> [@Anonomiss\_P](#): > > Ok, most of the time a guy would pick me up, we would get into light conversation, exchange names, flirt lightly, and dance around it, until I thought it was appropriate to take things a step further, and see if he was serious. I would ask him to give me a kiss or fondle me. Its not something that can be explained, and every time was a little different. Its not foolproof, and being under the influence affected things as you could imagine. Understood. So it sounds like you asked for the touch before even hinting at payment. In light of that, I don’t see the basis for assuming that a cop couldn’t do it. I can understand that a cop might be leery of doing something that counts - to some extent - as prostitution. But if all you were doing was hanging out to that point, what he would be doing by touching you was not illegal at all. It would be different if it were clear by that point that it was a sex-for-money exchange. Anyway, thanks for answering. Perhaps you might be amenable to starting an “Ask the Former Prostitute” thread. ---
**Author:** ![Anonomiss\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e99b99/32.png) [@Anonomiss\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anonomiss_P)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/29 "2009-09-25T17:58:12Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Understood. > > So it sounds like you asked for the touch before even hinting at payment. In light of that, I don’t see the basis for assuming that a cop couldn’t do it. I can understand that a cop might be leery of doing something that counts - to some extent - as prostitution. But if all you were doing was hanging out to that point, what he would be doing by touching you was not illegal at all. It would be different if it were clear by that point that it was a sex-for-money exchange. > > Anyway, thanks for answering. Perhaps you might be amenable to starting an “Ask the Former Prostitute” thread. LOL. If theres any other questions youor any one would like answered, just ask away. Hagd, Anon ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/30 "2009-09-25T18:05:29Z")
I can’t hijack this thread, which is about a specific legal issue. ---
**Author:** ![Surbey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@Surbey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surbey)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/31 "2009-09-26T03:21:11Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > I see what you did there. Oh lord! I hope my father isn’t reading this. pun definitely NOT intended. I’m just that funny :D. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/32 "2009-09-26T04:02:30Z")
“You want extra foam?” ---
**Author:** ![Category5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Category5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Category5)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/33 "2009-09-27T19:51:48Z")
The place they busted is called “Grab-n-Go Bikini Hut” but the owner had them sign contracts stating that they wouldn’t engage in such conduct. I wish I could be a fly on the wall when he is “interviewing” new employees. ---
**Author:** ![janeslogin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@janeslogin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janeslogin)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/34 "2009-09-28T14:51:54Z")
In any event, **no** , they should not be charged, for anything! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/35 "2009-09-28T15:52:50Z")
> [@](#): > > In any event, no, they should not be charged, for anything! Are you saying they shouldn’t be charged under the existing law or are you saying the law they were charged under shouldn’t exist? ---
**Author:** ![Stentor\_2.5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc8723/32.png) [@Stentor\_2.5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stentor_2.5)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/36 "2009-09-28T17:11:45Z")
Even as someone who generally supports the legalization of prostitution, I think this is a public nuisance. That being said, if I were in charge this would be prosecuted under indecent exposure and lewd public acts rather than prostitution. ---
**Author:** ![Backcountry\_Medic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Backcountry\_Medic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Backcountry_Medic)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/37 "2009-10-02T15:43:08Z")
Just one more step closer to turning “Idiocracy” into reality. After this much publicity, expect to see “gentleman’s lattes” at Starbuck’s with “extra foam” within a few years. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/38 "2009-10-02T15:56:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Are you saying they shouldn’t be charged under the existing law or are you saying the law they were charged under shouldn’t exist? He was saying they should get free coffee. And come on, the “Grab-N-Go?” That’s like, ironic, or something… ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/39 "2009-10-02T16:23:14Z")
> [@Anonomiss\_P](#): > > Ok, as a former prostitute, to make sure my “johns” were not law enforcement, I would ask them to touch either my boobs or my crotch. To my knowledge, officers wont touch you. I’ve never had a problem. Heck if I was a cop and you asked me that I’d be satisfied with just a look at your boobs and vayjay. But that’s just me 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429/40 "2009-10-03T04:08:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Undercover detectives began posing as customers in mid-July. I’ll bet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-these-5-bikini-baristas-be-charged-with-prostitution/511429.md?page=3)