That’s just the point. He never suffers the agony of defeat.
No, we can’t. That is the worst possible approach: to decide he’s allowed to compete, but only if he does not win. Better to be up front about your decision than to wait until he tastes victory to snatch it away.
I think you missed the point there- as it currently stands, the advantage to artificial legs compared to regular ones is questionable at best. If the technology starts getting unambiguously better than natural legs, then hell yes, regulation is going to be needed, but we’re not there at the moment, so now is not the time to start with the regs.
We could (and in my view should) develop a list of ‘acceptable’ equipment for the Olympics that includes certain models of artificial limbs, but not others, when there’s a clearer picture of what the actual advantages/disadvantages are. I don’t see how a blanket ban is a good way of dealing with the issue; and there’s no indication that the people actually racing this guy think it is.
And yes, he is racing in the Paralympics as well (despite the single-amputees complaining that he has a definite advantage over them in that he has matching legs), but he’s definitely not the first athlete to compete in both.
Pistorius is a great athlete, and should be commended with how well in can run in his prosthetics. The fact that he can whip all of the other competition in similar events makes him the world champion at what he does, and among the best athletes in the world. The fact that his times are comparable to able bodied runners is amazing and helps to put in perspective how great his achievement is. I fully support exhibition matches between him and other runners (ala Billie Jean King’s battle of the sexes.) But in the end he is engaging in a sport that is fundamentally different from what his competitors are.
Suppose there was a prosthetic that could be attached to able bodied runners that would increase the length of their stride by 6 inches, and that those runners who used them could run 400 meters in under 35 seconds. If such prosthetics became standard, would those supporting Pistorius still consider the 400 to be the same race as before they were developed?
I have to agree with the idea that he shouldn’t compete. Whether or not it’s an unfair advantage to have those prosthetics, as others have said, he’s not competing in the same race. Sure, it sucks that he has amazing athletic ability and is amputated, but it sucks just as much for non-amputees who just don’t have what it takes athletically to compete at that level. That’s pretty much the name of the game in those sorts of sports, you’re comparing a combination of genetics and training.
Sure, technology comes into it with nutrion and medicine and some specific equipment, but that’s where some reasonable lines come into play. Let’s say the same guy had decided to become a swimmer, what sort of prosthetic would he be allowed to use? Would he have to use one that looked just like a foot, or would he be permitted to use one that’s shaped like a fin? Sure, if we can meaningfully eliminate a disadvantage in a way that levels the playing field, like with contact lenses, which are inexpensive, thus available to all the athletes, and don’t give super-human sight that’s not unreasonable. In this case, we really can’t gauge how it affects his performance relative to how he might be with full limbs short of taking a sample of other world-class athletes, cutting off their legs, and having them train with the same prosthetics for years.
I remember a somewhat similar story about a wrestler who was born with all four limbs to about the knee/elbow and he was winning all sorts of championships. There was a similar dispute that he had a disadvantage by that so it was an amazing story, but the other side reasonably pointed out that, lacking that, he could have more core strength at the same weight class and a lot of moves just wouldn’t work against him because they require those parts for leverage and all. Again, it’s an amazing story, but I still felt it’s not really fair to him or his competitors since you can’t reasonably gauge how he sizes up with his competition.
Yes it’s an inspiring story and he’s an amazing athlete, but he’s just not playing the same game so he shouldn’t be directly competing with them.
I really am having trouble understanding the arguments for him competing.
He isn’t playing the same game. Give a swimmer swim-fins, give a speed skater a sail. Do any of you really think his legs, by pure, utter random chance happen to be exactly the same as human legs?
Seriously? The convergence of technology and engineering has happened, against all odds to produce something that is exactly the same as human lower legs and feet?
That’s asinine. They are either better or worse than human runner’s legs. Either way, he shouldn’t be competing against people who don’t have his advantages or disadvantages.
What if there were eye prosthesis, but being based on mechanical lenses they let you see a thousand times better than a man. You wanna allow that person into sharpshooting competitions? What about when artificial legs are demonstrably better than human ones. You gonna let some guy with cyber legs, who can jump nine feet into the air compete against unmodified humans?
The Olympics is about the person, and it sucks utterly, but he simply isn’t equipped to fairly compete.
Well, you’re getting one right, for a change. ![]()
Last night when Hussein Bolt won the 100 and they were showing a replay for the side, one of the announcers mused, when you have to take 41 step and everyone else has to take 44, that changes things. Now I don’t think he was saying that stride length (Bolt is tall for a sprinter) alone is enough, But was thinking about this thread and imagined Pistorius showing up with prosthetics six feet long. In a race of greater distance, where the start is not that important, that could be a crushing advantage. We could see a three-minute mile, or faster.
Now, I really like Pistorius. A lot. And I could see last night how much this meant to him. BUt it’s an athletic competition. Where athletes train hard to do the best they can with the human body. It’s not Humans + Robot Wars hybrid: "And we have a new record for the discus throw. 1,387.649 meters.
Good point. He shouldn’t be allowed to use wheels, rockets, or prosthetics that make him 12 feet tall.
I don’t understand the arguments against letting him compete. He’s using technology to compensate for a disadvantage. Would I be disallowed in shooting or archery because I wear glasses?
Sure, regulate the weight and springiness or whatever to keep a replacement body part from being an advantage. As it stands now, any supposed improvement his prosthetics are over a regular foot are balanced by many other disadvantages.
But he should be allowed to use carbon fiber springs that very likely give him an advantage over people who have much heavier natural legs?
You got one right, too! What the hell is going on today.
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But how would you ever know? There is no reason a foot like his can’t be better than our feet. How would you ever know that you engineered them down or up enough to truly be equivalent to our legs? People win races by a hundredth of a second. Any advantage is too much.
Yes. Taken in total, he doesn’t have an advantage. He has a disability and the prosthetics compensate for that somewhat. I don’t think this is even close.
Hypothetical then: What if it were shown to your satisfaction that the legs allow him to run faster than he would if he were an undamaged human. You’d be for disallowing that, right?
I guess I’m saying, he might be a fantastic athlete, but he isn’t doing the same thing as the other runners. He’s doing something completely different that is only analogous to normal human running by covering ground. I mean, his body is lighter, his legs are lighter, he has no muscles to waste blood on in his legs, they are springs. I have no trouble believing that they are preferable to natural legs, if ground speed is the only criteria. I don’t see him being judged against others who aren’t competing in the same manner he is.
Excellent points. All.
But then again, maybe I’m wrong. ![]()
You’re not going to prove that. I’d be in favor of banning prosthetic limbs if you showed that runners on with those limbs were capable of achieving times that humans with natural limbs cannot reach. We’ve already seen this isn’t the case with Pistorius since he might be one of the 20 best runners in the 400 meters, and it goes without saying he’s the best racer among amputees.
In his last race at the 2012 Olympics Pistorius was about 2 seconds slower than the winners of the race, and his personal best time in the 400 meters is a record for amputees but it’s almost 2 seconds slower than the record for humans with two complete legs. The idea that he has an advantage is really kind of absurd. You have to base it on isolated factoids like “he’s lighter” (he weighs 25 pounds more than Jeremy Wariner, and Usain Bolt weighs 30 pounds more than Pistorius and seems to do just fine) or "he gets more energy out of his stride than he puts into it (yes, but less energy than he would if he had actual feet and legs). His best time in the 400 meters is 45.07 seconds. That was the world record for guys with two legs in 1960.
Suppose through some miracle he grows legs every bit as muscular and trained as if he had them all his life. But now he is THREE seconds slower than everyone else. Now would you say he got an advantage with his artificial legs?
Except for the fact that they aren’t.
There’s no doubt that it’s possible to create legs that give an advantage, and Hugh Herr has some on the drawing board, but those are not the legs Pistorius uses.
Another very excellent point. But do you really think that possibility didn’t cross my mind?