# Should this veterinarian lose her license to practice? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 29, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833 "2015-04-29T18:46:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/21 "2015-04-30T04:05:29Z")
> [@mrldii](#): > > @Czarcasm: > Again, I took the use of “homeopathic medicines/therapies” as used when quoting this Vet (within the OP) to be in the context to be referring to “natural and organic” as opposed to its _true_ meaning of ‘introducing controlled amounts of a disease to fight the disease’ within a pet. > > As I stated earlier, she can’t very well hold DIY classes on how to inject diseases into one’s pet if, _to get ahold of the disease to begin with_, one has to have the proper [medical] licensing. \*Homeopathic \*referring to “natural and organic”? Are you thinking of \*holistic \*instead? I’ve never heard of homeopathic to mean anything but homeopathic. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/22 "2015-04-30T06:32:52Z")
> [@mrldii](#): > > My bad. I was responding to the Vet’s use of “homeopathic” in its generally and colloquially used sense nowadays of meaning alternative/natural treatments, not in its dictionary definition: No, the word’s “generally and colloquially used sense” is the same as its dictionary definition. People know what the word means; they’re just in disagreement about it being a bogus substitute for medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/23 "2015-04-30T07:15:59Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > \*Homeopathic \*referring to “natural and organic”? Are you thinking of \*holistic \*instead? I’ve never heard of homeopathic to mean anything but homeopathic. I’ve seen “homeopathic” as an umbrella term for alternative medicine. If someone wants to sell snake-oil pet cures, I don’t think they should be legally stopped from doing that. But they also shouldn’t be able to be licensed as a veterinarian. The whole point of the licensing system is to make it clear who is practicing scientifically supported medicine. Letting someone use their credentials to sell sham-treatments makes the whole system pointless. And saying pets don’t need to be vaccinated is doubly ungood, as it endangers not just the animal but risks a wider public-health risk. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/24 "2015-04-30T13:22:36Z")
You Nancy Naysayers need to keep a more open mind with regard to alternative medicine. I’ve never take my pets or kids to allopathic or osteopathic physicians. I’ve saved a ton of money on medical bills…and food bills. Coincidentally, I’m opening my own homeopathic clinic for pets and their owners, and charging only $500 per treatment session (that’s for both pet AND owner, BTW!). After years of diligent research and clinical trials, I’ve developed a topical pressurized water spray treatment that coats the entire surface area of my patient and their pet. The therapy promotes vim, vigor and vitality! My topical, aqueous solution contains trace amounts of minerals, organic and inorganic compounds and dissolved ions that have been demonstrated to…well, they just do all kinds of good things. I administer the solution at body temperature for a relaxing spa-like experience. I’ve also imbued my treatment with fortifying amber-hued color therapy and pungent aromatherapy. It’s holistic, naturopathic, organic and homeopathic all wrapped up together! So come on down to my clinic with Fido while I pull down my zipper. Bring the kids and grandma, too. ---
**Author:** ![Soylent\_Juicy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Soylent\_Juicy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Juicy)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/25 "2015-04-30T14:15:09Z")
I lost interest as soon as the post said “my darlings.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/26 "2015-04-30T14:21:55Z")
> [@mrldii](#): > > Again, I took the use of “homeopathic medicines/therapies” as used when quoting this Vet (within the OP) to be in the context to be referring to “natural and organic” as opposed to its _true_ meaning of ‘introducing controlled amounts of a disease to fight the disease’ within a pet. Homeopathic medicines don’t introduce “controlled amounts of a disease”. They’re just water. > [@](#): > > As I stated earlier, she can’t very well hold DIY classes on how to inject diseases into one’s pet if, to get ahold of the disease to begin with, one has to have the proper [medical] licensing. You don’t need a licence to give your pet homeopathic medicine - you are doing the same thing by putting water into his dish. The vet in the OP isn’t recommending natural and organic cures - she is recommending homeopathic treatment, which has no side effects because it has no effects at all. Scientifically trained people, which vets are supposed to be, should know this. Any vet who doesn’t, or who does and is exploiting the gullibility of her clients to make money, should not be practicing veterinary medicine. Regards, Shodan Son of a Retired Veterinarian Who Used to Be Head of His State’s Licensing Board ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/27 "2015-04-30T17:38:59Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Any vet who prescribes homeopathy, or other disproven treatments, is ripping off her patients. That’s fraud. > > Regards, > Shodan This pretty much sums it up for me. She is ripping off her patients. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/28 "2015-05-01T06:51:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Homeopathic medicines don’t introduce “controlled amounts of a disease”. They’re just water. > > You don’t need a licence to give your pet homeopathic medicine - you are doing the same thing by putting water into his dish. > > The vet in the OP isn’t recommending natural and organic cures - she is recommending homeopathic treatment, which has no side effects because it has no effects at all. > > Scientifically trained people, which vets are supposed to be, should know this. Any vet who doesn’t, or who does and is exploiting the gullibility of her clients to make money, should not be practicing veterinary medicine. > > Regards, > Shodan > Son of a Retired Veterinarian Who Used to Be Head of His State’s Licensing Board Would you object to a veterinarian asking a pet owner to pray with him to heal the dog? ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/29 "2015-05-01T07:27:51Z")
> [@JWT\_Kottekoe](#): > > The 30C in the name of the drug is homeopathy-speak for a dilution of one part in 100^30 (or one part in 10^60). Another way to express that, besides the one by StPauler, is that this is about a teaspoon of active ingredient diluted by a cube of water 100 light years on a side. How do they even come with those figures? I always assumed they just filled the bottle from the tap and then lied to the patient about its “strength”, but do they actually go through the motions of trying to make it “one part in 100^30”? ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/30 "2015-05-01T11:11:14Z")
Some charlatans simply dip their big toe in a bucket of water and call it torpor tonic. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/31 "2015-05-01T11:53:20Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Would you object to a veterinarian asking a pet owner to pray with him to heal the dog? 1. Did the veterinarian advertise beforehand that he did faith healing? 2. Is he charging for this faith healing? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/32 "2015-05-01T12:02:42Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Would you object to a veterinarian asking a pet owner to pray with him to heal the dog? 1. Is the vet stating that vaccines kill and prayer is her preferred alternative to stopping Parvo or Heartworm? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/33 "2015-05-01T12:20:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. Did the veterinarian advertise beforehand that he did faith healing? > 2. Is he charging for this faith healing? I have no idea. But I cannot see how this irrational behaviour would be any more serious than homeopathy unless actual harm came to the dog. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/34 "2015-05-01T12:21:35Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > 1. Is the vet stating that vaccines kill and prayer is her preferred alternative to stopping Parvo or Heartworm? I don’t know. See above. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/35 "2015-05-01T12:24:27Z")
**Pjen** , when you can answer those questions, you’ll get your answers. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/36 "2015-05-01T12:31:10Z")
There seems to be considerable misunderstanding about what homeopathy involves. It is also [confused with herbalism](http://articles.latimes.com/1994-05-29/local/me-63716_1_homeopathic-remedies-and-herbs) (in reality, herbalism is mostly “allopathic” medicine, meaning its remedies are touted as acting _against_ deleterious signs and symptoms, just like good ol’ mainstream medicine (pointing this out tends to massively piss off supporters of herbalism). If just the act of “prescribing” homeopathic remedies by a vet is felt to be grounds for license revocation, then is there similar support for taking away the medical license of any physician that does so? There are quite a few “non-traditional healer” types in the M.D. racket that push homeopathy (i.e. the California pediatrician quoted in the above link). If they’re not actually selling this glop out of their offices it’s tough to advocate anything more than public ridicule. On the other hand, I’d have no problem with disciplining any physician who offered “homeopathic vaccination” in lieu of the real thing. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/37 "2015-05-01T14:38:28Z")
If homeopaths are allowed to treat humans, I can’t think of any rationale not to allow them to treat pets. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/38 "2015-05-01T15:13:23Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > If homeopaths are allowed to treat humans, I can’t think of any rationale not to allow them to treat pets. I still can’t think of any rationale to allow those frauds to treat humans. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/39 "2015-05-01T15:54:44Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > If homeopaths are allowed to treat humans, I can’t think of any rationale not to allow them to treat pets. Minnesota does not license homeopaths. If a person acting as a homeopath works on a person, they must give them a bill of rights [which includes the wording:](http://www.cga.ct.gov/2010/rpt/2010-R-0315.htm) > [@](#): > > “THE STATE OF MINNESOTA HAS NOT ADOPTED ANY EDUCATIONAL AND TRAINING STANDARDS FOR UNLICENSED COMPLEMENTARY AND ALTERNATIVE HEALTH CARE PRACTITIONERS. THIS STATEMENT OF CREDENTIALS IS FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY. Under Minnesota law, an unlicensed complementary and alternative health care practitioner may not provide a medical diagnosis or recommend discontinuance of medically prescribed treatments. If a client desires a diagnosis from a licensed physician, chiropractor, or acupuncture practitioner, or services from a physician, chiropractor, nurse, osteopath, physical therapist, dietician, nutritionist, acupuncture practitioner, athletic trainer, or any other type of health care provider, the client may seek such services at any time.” Suddenly, we have a problem with the lines getting blurred when a homeopath is also a licensed physician. Minnesota stopped licensing homeopaths a couple years ago. For them, it means “hey, we don’t have ‘big pharma’ breathing down our necks” and for skeptics it means “hey, we are removing legitimacy to homeopathy by not even regulating it”. Unfortunately, to the consumer, or like the person upthread who conflated natural drugs-like _the bark of a willow tree to cure a headache_- to homeopathy, we’ve got a huge problem about lack of information. Let’s say you’re feeling gross. You’ve got sores on your genitals, your hands and elsewhere. You start developing a rash. You head to your local ER and speak with the physician. She diagnoses you as having Syphillis. She’s also a homeopath. > [@](#): > > [Homeopathy Treatment & Homeopathic Remedies for Syphilis](http://treatment.hpathy.com/homeo-medicine/homeopathy-syphilis/) > > Homeopathy treats the person as a whole. It means that homeopathic treatment focuses on the patient as a person, as well as his pathological condition. The homeopathic medicines are selected after a full individualizing examination and case-analysis, which includes the medical history of the patient, physical and mental constitution etc. A miasmatic tendency (predisposition/susceptibility) is also often taken into account for the treatment of chronic conditions. The medicines given below indicate the therapeutic affinity but this is not a complete and definite guide to the treatment of this condition. The symptoms listed against each medicine may not be directly related to this disease because in homeopathy general symptoms and constitutional indications are also taken into account for selecting a remedy. To study any of the following remedies in more detail, please visit our Materia Medica section. None of these medicines should be taken without professional advice. So she writes a list of different homeopathic things Arnica 30c and sends you on your way. Maybe she even is nice to tell you to follow up with your local homeopath if you’re not feeling better in a week. In that week, Syphillis goes into the latency period. “HOMEOPATHY WORKED” as the symptoms are now gone. Right? > [@](#): > > Latent syphilis. This is where the infection lies dormant (inactive) without causing symptoms. But, then it comes back. > [@](#): > > [Tertiary syphilis.](http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/syphilis) If the infection isn’t treated, it may then progress to a stage characterized by severe problems with the heart, brain, and nerves that can result in paralysis, blindness, dementia, deafness, impotence, and even death if it’s not treated So there we are. Death. And we’re talking on a human level. A trust is needed to make sure that any ignorance of medicine shouldn’t be supplanted by quackery. Isn’t that the purpose of licensing? I can’t go just grab antibiotics over the counter or even codeine. There’s a reason for the licensing. To make sure that not only are people not taking stuff they don’t need, but to also make sure they know what TO take to heal themselves. Homeopathy will not heal people. It won’t heal animals. We shouldn’t have a blurred line when it comes to this. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833/40 "2015-05-01T16:30:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I still can’t think of any rationale to allow those frauds to treat humans. I agree, but somehow it happens. How do we tell the world, “Homeopaths can “treat” people, but they’re too dangerous for pets”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-this-veterinarian-lose-her-license-to-practice/718833.md?page=3)