# Should trans women be allowed to compete with women in sports. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 8, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trans-women-be-allowed-to-compete-with-women-in-sports/815696 "2018-06-08T16:34:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trans-women-be-allowed-to-compete-with-women-in-sports/815696/121 "2018-06-14T13:08:52Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > The amazon river is 6,992 kilometers long. Let’s talk about that. It’s true, it really does matter, it’s totally not a gigantic red herring that has nothing to do with what we’re talking about, it totally isn’t made irrelevant by things already said, I swear! > > :rolleyes: If the conversation is about the lengths of rivers then indeed the facts regarding river lengths are relevant. > [@](#): > > How 'bout you address the rest of my post? I have no need to as I don’t have anything to add to any of the points you made. I agree with much of it as it relates to mental wellbeing, categorisation and respect for the transgender population. My points, as you’ll notice, were to do with your misplaced and disingenuous response to\*\* ADG\*\*. You clearly misrepresented what was said and have now admitted as much and that matters to me because it poisons the debate. The hyperbolic insults spiral out of control and proper discussion is shut down. Perhaps ADG would like to pop back in an clarify their comments? Would you be willing to listen to a defence of their words? > [@](#): > > I think your priorities are _fucked_, because if you think the most important thing about my post was that I took a dehumanizing slur and adding color to the language, then that’s your problem. I don’t think that the words used either represented, or were meant as, “a dehumanising slur” > [@](#): > > You’re right, **Aji** didn’t say “cut off your dick”. And David Duke doesn’t say “nigger” any more. All that does is hide the nastiness of what’s being said behind a patina of civility that fails to acknowledge how _fucking awful_ what’s said is. But if it matters to you: fine, they weren’t vulgar, they were merely dehumanizing and transphobic. . No, I don’t get that from the post at all. The slur as you re-wrote it certainly was but you had to re-write it and misrepresent it in order to accomplish that. > [@](#): > > Now would you like to actually talk about things that matter? I’ve already made some other points in this thread but don’t worry, when I’ve got other points to make I’ll let you know. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trans-women-be-allowed-to-compete-with-women-in-sports/815696/122 "2018-06-14T15:37:37Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > …It turns out that when we accept transgender kids, allow them to transition, and support them in their identity (y’know, if we accept the kid with XY chromosomes who insists they’re a woman to the point that they wants to cut their own dick off as a woman), the various mental health issues connected with gender dysphoria fade _drastically_. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > So tell me. In what fucking universe is referring to Bubbles as “a man with their dick cut off” sensible, or indeed anything less than a huge, unreasonable, and incredibly shitty insult designed to be maximally hurtful to this person? Why would you do that? What’s _wrong_ with you? There is clearly legit debate to be had over how sporting organizations should address trans/cis persons in sports. The Olympics have already addressed this issue (perhaps not finally) which was mentioned in post #5. I understand what you are trying to do here, but this unnecessarily inflammatory delivery is more derailing/distracting than anything. Dial back the rhetoric. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Warm\_blood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Warm\_blood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Warm_blood)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trans-women-be-allowed-to-compete-with-women-in-sports/815696/123 "2018-06-15T00:02:05Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > The amazon river is 6,992 kilometers long. Let’s talk about that. It’s true, it really does matter, it’s totally not a gigantic red herring that has nothing to do with what we’re talking about, it totally isn’t made irrelevant by things already said, I swear! > > :rolleyes: > > How 'bout you address the rest of my post? > > I think your priorities are _fucked_, because if you think the most important thing about my post was that I took a dehumanizing slur and adding color to the language, then that’s your problem. You’re right, **Aji** didn’t say “cut off your dick”. And David Duke doesn’t say “nigger” any more. All that does is hide the nastiness of what’s being said behind a patina of civility that fails to acknowledge how _fucking awful_ what’s said is. But if it matters to you: fine, they weren’t vulgar, they were merely dehumanizing and transphobic. > > Now would you like to actually talk about things that matter? Totally off-topic, but do you post on Pop Justice and ATRL? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trans-women-be-allowed-to-compete-with-women-in-sports/815696/124 "2018-06-15T18:47:46Z")
[As trans high school athletes win state titles, parents petition to ban them](https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/as-trans-high-school-athletes-win-state-titles-parents-petition-to-ban-them/ar-AAyE4OY?li=BBnb7Kz) This is an opinion piece masquerading as a news story. > [@](#): > > This is blatant transphobia. There is no evidence that these two trans athletes have worked any less hard than any other girl. In fact, given the deep mental toll being transgender takes on trans youth, the fact is they probably worked harder than their cisgender competitors. > > Yet the assumption is they have just strolled onto the track, put on some spikes and set state meet records. I’m sure they did work hard. But they also had some genetic advantages not available to the girls who worked just as hard. Is there now _any point at all_ at having different events for girls and boys? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trans-women-be-allowed-to-compete-with-women-in-sports/815696/125 "2018-06-15T19:05:47Z")
It is a really tough situation and as I’ve said before I just don’t know what the answer is. When the person beating the rest of the field by half a second over 100 metres is a male/female transgender athlete it doesn’t look good. It can’t be a nice situation for anyone involved. The girl herself is having fingers pointed and those she beats must be wondering whether it is a level playing field. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trans-women-be-allowed-to-compete-with-women-in-sports/815696/126 "2018-06-16T01:13:07Z")
Why don’t they just have “testosterone classes” just as there are weight classes in boxing and wrestling? Wouldn’t this be the simplest solution here? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trans-women-be-allowed-to-compete-with-women-in-sports/815696/127 "2018-06-16T01:26:52Z")
Well… except for the complete androgen insensitivity syndromes where testosterone has zero effect on a person’s body. Such people may have normal male levels of testosterone, it’s just completely ineffective for them since their cells lack the receptor that allows it to be used. Externally, these folks are female. If anything, they tend to be more feminine in appearance than average (flawless skin, little body hair, very busty, etc.) They derive zero benefit from testosterone. In other words, mother nature apparently likes to keep things complicated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trans-women-be-allowed-to-compete-with-women-in-sports/815696.md?page=6)