Should transwomen be allowed in women's prisons?

[AHunter3]

It does seem to me that if the argument is “female prisoners are at risk of sexual assault if they are kept in anything other than sex-segregated confines”, all the personnel hired to work in women’s prisons should be female.

And yeah, what Kimstu and Danger_Man are saying about it only being on our social radar because conservative politicians are trying to capitalize on it as culture-war voter-motivational fodder.

[ASL_v2.0]

@RitterSport

…until they’re blaming all society’s ills on some woman in Kentucky or something.

Actually, the Garden of Eden was in Missouri. Jackson County, I believe. Damn that Eve, partaking of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and so condemning all of Adam’s seed to misery!

(Seriously, that is one of Eve’s many roles in certain applications: to be the one woman all men can point to as evidence that all of society’s problems are attributable to womankind).

[Dissonance]

@AHunter3

It does seem to me that if the argument is “female prisoners are at risk of sexual assault if they are kept in anything other than sex-segregated confines”, all the personnel hired to work in women’s prisons should be female.

That argument is, of course, in and of itself wrong as it is predicated on the erroneous assumption that women can’t be sexually assaulted by other women. The BBC’s rather infamous article originally entitled “We’re being pressured into sex by some trans women” discussing allegations that lesbians were being pressured into having sex with transwomen had Lily Cade as one of its sources before being forced to retract any statements coming from her, as 1) Lily Cade was a lesbian pornographic actress who had multiple accusations of sexual assault against women prior to the publishing of the BBC article:

Lily Cade, a former pornographic actress quoted in the article, had been the subject of sexual misconduct allegations. Cade apologised for the incidents in 2017, later saying that she had thought they were consensual and had stopped working in the industry after the allegations. Poe, another pornographic actress, reported informing Lowbridge of those incidents, but the latter considered the topic irrelevant and all content from the interview was omitted from the final article.

and 2) Cade published a violently transphobic rant shortly after the article’s publication, the full transcript which can be found in this link for anyone interested, but the summary makes her position clear enough:

Lily Cade, an anti-transgender activist, has faced severe criticism in recent days for an article she wrote on her website that supported acts of violence against transgender women.

In a post on her website called “Where The F*** Are These Children’s Mothers?,” Cade described trans women as “vile, weak, disgusting whiny, fake-victim” and called for them to be lynched.

Sadly, prior to her openly calling for the murder of transwomen, the BBC didn’t consider their knowledge of the fact that Cade herself had been accused of multiple sexual assaults against women to be a disqualifier of her authority as a source of the claim that lesbians were being pressured into sex with transwomen or even consider the point worthy of being mentioned in the article.

[Mijin]

@Kimstu

And what’s even more mindblowing is that it’s all essentially just a rehash of the earlier culture-war attacks on gay rights. A decade or so ago, tons of conservative activists were wringing their hands and howling about how letting people be openly gay in the military, in teaching, in marriage, etc. etc., would be so dangerous for straight people and would put children in harm’s way, etc. ad nauseam.

Now that being gay is nowhere near such a big deal in the eyes of the general public as it used to be, conservative activists have to ramp up a new “threat” to howl about.

Yep, and it has to be a threat. They can’t just admit to themselves “I hate this group that’s minding their own business; I find their lifestyle icky” or whatever. There always has to be some way that they’re supposedly bringing it to the doorstep of the conservative, and compelling him to do something.
It’s always nonsense, and I’ve even got people on MAGA forums to admit as much. They just say “Well, it’s not a big problem yet…”

(That’s not to say that there aren’t issues with which prison trans people should be sent to. But there are already lots of considerations and edge cases when it comes to sending people to prison. I agree with @Danger_Man that this shouldn’t be an issue half of society is concerned about)

[eschrodinger]

@WalterBishop

It’s different. The fact that transmen are biologically female may mean their presence is less traumatic to female inmates. It’s my understanding that only a tiny fraction of transmen undergo a phalloplasty, and even those that do only do it for aesthetic reasons. Personally, I’m far more relaxed about letting transmen in women’s prisons. And if they want to serve their time in men’s prisons I’m ok that, too. Transmen don’t pose a threat to the safety and dignity of male prisoners in the same way transwomen do for female prisoners.*

My emphases.
I didn’t see this addressed earlier, so sorry if I missed it.

You’re right that few trans men are able to get bottom surgery. That’s not just phalloplasty, by the way. Describing it as for “aesthetic” reasons is of course wrong on multiple levels. Besides completely dismissing gender dysphoria as a sort of fashion choice, it is simply wrong about the functionality of the results of bottom surgery. Successful phalloplasty results in a phallus that can become erect and can be used in penetrative sex.

The penis is not nearly as magical as many cis men seem to think. How is a trans woman who has committed sexual assaults against women any more dangerous than a cis woman who has committed sexual assaults against women? Where do you think cis women who’ve been convicted of sexual assault are imprisoned? Where should they be?

@Miller

How does it make sense, exactly? If a trans women is a sexual threat, they’re a sexual threat regardless of whether or not they’ve had their penis removed. Unless you think the dick is where the evil lives, I don’t see how this makes any sense at all.

Ah, that’s the magic maybe. Only penises can be sexually assaultive. No penis for the evil to live in, no sexual assaults.

[MrDibble]

Wait, I’ve seen this movie before…

[Swords_to_Plowshares]

Trans women in men’s prisons are raped daily. No one outside of the LGBT community gives two shits about it, or they even think it’s acceptable or encouraged.

Prison guards encourage this behavior under the guise of it making inmates less violent.

[paulmarkj]

Man are assaulted, killed and commit suicide in prison by the bus load. Where’s the outcry from the right?

I have seen a list of (600, I think) republican politicians who have been involved in sex offences and child sex offences. Where’s the outcry from the right?