# Should Trump be Prosecuted? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105 "2020-11-09T01:26:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/82 "2020-11-09T16:10:07Z")
Fair enough. What’s the act that prohibits Federal employees from using their offices for personal profit? I seem to recall that Trump had been violating that right and left with his trips to Mar-A-Lago? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/83 "2020-11-09T16:22:58Z")
What about their staff? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/84 "2020-11-09T16:39:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah- the State of NY is ready, willing and able. > > And this just shows what idiots trump and Rudy are- trump is gonna need that money he is pissing away on frivolous legal challenges. Ummm, they are FUNDRAISING. The promise of those legal challenges is the bait to attract donations. They may not spend all the money they raise. Trump may be able to use some of that money to retire other debts, or make other use of it. ---
**Author:** ![ArtBeforeScience](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@ArtBeforeScience](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArtBeforeScience)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/85 "2020-11-09T17:14:19Z")
I would love to see Trump directly prosecuted, but that could galvanize his supporters. It would be better to set up a situation where he is shown to have no power. Take the wind out of his sails. In the animal world, this would mean defeat in physical combat against another alpha male. Maybe Robert Greene’s book _The 48 Laws of Power_ will have a scenario that would work. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/86 "2020-11-09T17:28:51Z")
> [@ArtBeforeScience](#): > > …that could galvanize his supporters. They already are galvanized. Absolutely nothing moves them off their support for Trump. Democrats need to stop worrying about them and certainly have no reason to placate them. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/87 "2020-11-09T17:35:59Z")
Yes he should be prosecuted. If, I mean when, he pardons himself let’s go ahead and test whether he can indeed do so. Also should test whether pardons in advance of charges are valid. You could argue that one cannot know whether a pardon is proper without knowing what the accusations are. This should not be Biden’s decision. He should just defer all such matters to his AG just as the first 44 presidents would have. I think it’s nuts to say “I know I can’t convict, therefore I can’t prosecute.” Let the prosecutions happen, let the evidence be public, and if the jury can’t convict it’s on them. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/88 "2020-11-09T17:43:36Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I perhaps should first aver than I have lived a legally spotless life and never have got away with anything other than minor traffic violations. [But that makes me unusual.](https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229) Most people have committed crimes and gotten away with it. If every, or most, felonies resulted in jail time, most of us would be jailbirds. (Compare and contrast the school to prison pipeline with how things work in affluent suburbs.) > > If that’s too radical a viewpoint for you, surely you realize that most reported crime never results in conviction. with the possible (depends on the jurisdiction) exception of murder. For burglary, or fraud, the best the law can do is show us that violators put themselves at legal risk. If only murderers are getting convicted, I wonder who is filling the jails? Sure pushing someone is technically a crime, one you are unlikely to be charged with. But the magnitude of the crime has some bearing - beating the crap out of someone is more likely to get you into trouble. Trump didn’t take a buck from petty cash. As for him not being convicted, are you aware of the large amounts of evidence there is publicly available of his crimes, let alone all that which is in the hands of prosecutors and that which they don’t have access to yet due to Trump’s obstruction. The NY Times reports of his tax returns shows plenty. That’s not getting a line wrong on a tax return - it is keeping two sets of books and paying employees of the Trump Organization consulting fees which could be deducted. White collar criminals are hard to convict, true. But Trump has spent so many years thumbing his nose at the law that he thinks he is immune from prosecution. Let’s show him he is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/89 "2020-11-09T17:48:31Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s really the question; if the alleged crimes in question were committed before he was in office, then having four years in office should do absolutely nothing in terms of whether or not he’s actually prosecuted for those crimes, save maybe putting that prosecution on hold during his term of office. > > As far as indicting/trying Presidents for crimes committed in office, I’m not so sure. I mean, there’s a really gray line sometimes between legitimate policy decisions and criminal actions in ANY President’s administration, and it’s all totally dependent on where you’re looking at it from. One man’s legitimate airstrike against terrorists is another’s war crime, you know. I meant prosecutions that began when he was in office, for crimes committed before he took office as well as when he was in office. And I agree with you that prosecuting him for what might be considered crimes done in his official capacity would be a mistake. But given that he refused to distance himself from his companies, crimes committed involving those companies not involving his presidential duties should be prosecutable. However, given the vast number of offenses, I’m all for prosecutors picking the ones that are easy to explain and which offer a high chance of conviction. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/90 "2020-11-09T17:50:27Z")
I really hope that trump takes it out of our hands by fleeing to a country with no extradition treaty. I don’t want to see the mess that would ensue from prosecuting him. And I also don’t want to set a precedent that the president is above the law. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/91 "2020-11-09T17:53:07Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Here’s a consideration I don’t think I’ve seen mentioned here yet: > > Yes, it might be hard to find an impartial jury. Some 48% of potential jurors would actually vote for this guy. (See: Recent election.) Just try getting 12 jurors to vote to convict. > > BUT: There’s a good possibility he could be brought up on civil charges. The New York cases, especially, appear to involve a lot of financial crimes, and those are commonly brought as civil cases. For that you only need 50%+1 of a jury to vote to convict. That’s a lot more plausible. You are not going to find 49% of jury candidates in New York being Trump supporters. Trying him in Alabama could be a problem. I suspect that once you throw away the fanatics (on either side) you’ll find a good pool of people who may doubt the evidence now, but would not if shown it directly, in Trump’s handwriting, for instance. I’ve been in the jury pool for several capital murder cases, and saying you are against the death penalty is not a good way of getting off. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/92 "2020-11-09T17:55:42Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I really hope that trump takes it out of our hands by fleeing to a country with no extradition treaty. I don’t want to see the mess that would ensue from prosecuting him. And I also don’t want to set a precedent that the president is above the law. That works also, because it puts him in the class of Idi Amin, and would make him look like a coward. The question is whether Trump is sane enough to know that he has committed crimes, or whether he thinks his misunderstanding of the law (or scorn of it) gives him a free pass. If that is so, he wouldn’t run because he’d be convinced he’d get off. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/93 "2020-11-09T17:56:31Z")
A pre-emptive pardon scenario: could a president declare a Purge? “I pre-emptively pardon everyone for any murder committed in Philadelphia during the next 48 hours!” Could a president end all law enforcement? “I pre-emptively pardon anyone convicted of any crime in our country ever again!” Pretty sure the answer to these is gonna be “nope.” So what are the limits? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/94 "2020-11-09T18:00:19Z")
Presidential pardons are only for federal laws. So it wouldn’t affect the vast majority of murders. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/95 "2020-11-09T18:05:00Z")
Fair point! Could governors, then, issue such pardons? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/96 "2020-11-09T18:14:37Z")
Somehow I don’t think that’s in Cuomo’s plans, even if he can do so. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/97 "2020-11-09T18:14:37Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > And yet Lori Loughlin will be doing time upstate. Well, two months in a very low-security prison, but sure. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/98 "2020-11-09T18:16:40Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The question is whether Trump is sane enough to know that he has committed crimes, or whether he thinks his misunderstanding of the law (or scorn of it) gives him a free pass. If that is so, he wouldn’t run because he’d be convinced he’d get off. He has to know he is facing tough times ahead. Even if he thinks it is all unfair and unjust and he is really totally innocent he has to know the legal actions facing him are only piling up and getting more serious. He has exhausted most legal delaying tactics and his biggest ability to delay…being president…is about to end. Then add in that he reportedly has [$900 million in loans coming due](https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2020/10/19/trump-will-have-900-million-of-loans-coming-due-in-his-second-term-if-hes-reelected/?sh=567406d25f37) that he almost certainly cannot pay and [Deutsche Bank seems to be done with him and is considering seizing his assets](https://www.businessinsider.com/deutsche-bank-trump-ties-debts-after-election-reuters-2020-11). Unless Trump is really delusional (which he might be) he needs to be looking for an escape hatch which probably means getting out of the country to someplace with no extradition. Otherwise his remaining years on this planet are not going to be fun for him. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/99 "2020-11-09T18:45:41Z")
There are different categories of pre-emptive pardons to consider. There could be pardons issued for crimes that have not yet occurred, certainly that kind will be rejected by the courts. There could also be pardons for unknown crimes, as Ford issued for Nixon, still an open question about their validity. Then there are pardons for known crimes, not yet charged. However, I don’t think it’s realistic to require pardons to specify each particular crime that could be charged related to one incident, so some kind of blanket pardon has to be allowed as long as it’s not too broad. And I don’t think we want prosecutors to be able to hold off on charging crimes until a different executive is in office who would not pardon the offender so pre-emptive pardons for known criminal acts should be allowed as long as they act is specified. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/100 "2020-11-09T18:54:45Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > However, I don’t think it’s realistic to require pardons to specify each particular crime that could be charged related to one incident, so some kind of blanket pardon has to be allowed as long as it’s not too broad. I think you pardon the act and not a specific crime so you get pardoned for jaywalking which covers anything illegal relating to that act and not a pardon each for: - Crossing against the light - Obstructing traffic - Crossing where there is no crosswalk - Not looking both ways before crossing ---
**Author:** ![ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chockfullofheadygoodness/32/511_2.png) [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105/101 "2020-11-09T19:11:18Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > > Our nation has a long history of believing that powerful people should not face consequences for corruption. > > And yet Lori Loughlin will be doing time upstate There may be a wee bit of a power differential between POTUS and sitcom actress. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-trump-be-prosecuted/925105.md?page=6)