…I’m not going to be “thanking” what I consider to be a genocidal regime. We only even got this peace deal because Israel took it a step too far by bombing Qatar. If they didn’t do that, the deal probably wouldn’t have happened.
So we’ve got you on the record that Sinwar should still be alive, then.
Possibly a gift link
It’s a classic mistake for both sides to demonize their opponents and justify any atrocities committed by their own side as necessities to defeat the opposition.
Neither side are the good guys, civilians on both sides suffer, and the faster an international force can be established to replace Hamas and take over from Israel, the better for all.
But don’t think a full withdrawal from Gaza by the IDF will end the conduct and forge a lasting peace. Not as long as the West Bank is still unresolved or the Israelis continue to try to take over the al-Aqsa mosque.
That’s not what he said at all.
It’s certainly what his posts imply. Any military action Israel takes against Hamas is “genocidal”, therefore the killing of Sinwar was wrong and he ought to still be alive and in power.
Moderating
Drop this now. Your trying to put words in his mouth and disrupting the thread doing so. Any more and you’ll get a warning.
Even implying Hamas gives a single shit about the people of Gaza is so deluded I don’t even know how to refute it. Hamas very obviously does not want a ceasefire.
…they very obviously did want a ceasefire, which is why they literally agreed to this ceasefire. They agreed to the last ceasefire. They agreed to the current ceasefire even though its objectively a very very bad deal. They released all of the living hostages even though that was all of their leverage.
Since the start of thceasefire,re Israel have breached the ceasefire daily. Israel has killed 236 Palestinians and injured 600. Israel continues to demolish houses behind the yellow line. They are only letting in on average 134 trucks a day (including commercial trucks) instead of the promised 600. And in response, there has been only a handful of reported incidents.
The idea that they didn’t want this ceasefire doesn’t make any sense. If they didn’t want it they wouldn’t have agreed to it.
two thousand Palestinians in exchange for 20 Israelis is a “very bad deal”? What should the exchange rate be?
They kidnapped civilians from their homes and from a music festival while raping and butchering hundreds of other civilians. That’s not leverage, that’s monstrous evil.
And because they chose to do that, Hamas brought down hell upon themselves and upon the people they chose to hide behind. That was the only outcome a monstrous attack like October 7 was ever going to have.
What leverage are you talking about?
Yep, that and the pressure from the IDF and the USA made it hard not to agree- for a few days anyway.
Exactly. Altho we can certainly blame that crook Netanyahu for fanning the flames for his own personal political reasons, the fire was started- with malice- by Hamas.
…this wasn’t the “deal”. You’ve cherry-picked a single element from the deal.
And yes, this is still a bad deal. Israel should release at the very least every prisoner that is detained without charge. They should release all of the children, including the Mohammed Zaher Ibrahim, American-Palestinian 16 year old accused of “throwing rocks”. It should include Dr. Hussam Abu Safiya, the former director of Kamal Adwan Hospital, who we don’t even know why he is being detained for at all.
Israel should return all of the bodies of dead Palestinians, including those that were being held before October the 7th. Israel need to be held accountable for what the evidence suggests is torture, abuse and execution.
Israel should be letting in 600 aid trucks that they committed to allow in daily according to the peace deal, including much needed medical supplies, including heavy equipment so they can recover some of the estimated 10,000 bodies still buried under the rubble.
I agree. It was monstrous evil. An atrocity. A warcrime.
That doesn’t take away from anything I said. They wanted the ceasefire. So they released the last remaining leverage that they had.
Israel has kidnapped civilians from their homes in Gaza, from their homes in the West Bank. They have raped and butchered thousands of civilians. That’s monstrous evil. And we should all be calling them out.
Israel chose to respond to these attacks with genocide.
That’s on them. There is no “get out of jail” card because the other side committed atrocities as well.
From the perspective of Hamas who clearly sees little to no value in human life for any civilians involved in this conflict they were holding the hostages as leverage to get something, although what they ended up getting doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
I think it’s more likely they’re just insane and you can’t really draw any rational explanation for their actions. They clearly don’t care at all about the hostages themselves, but they either thought it was worth it to hold the hostages and accept whatever proportion of the blowback they’ve had since October 7 was worse as a result, or they thought that releasing the hostages in an effort to alleviate the blowback. They didn’t suddenly conclude that there was a link between them holding Israeli hostages and the Palestinians that were getting killed. It’s hard to believe they suddenly started caring enough that Palestinians were getting killed to release the hostages.
Going back to our original point in the thread, regardless of opinion on what’s actually happening on the ground, Trump is still claiming success and victory in his peace deal:
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5585989-trump-ceasefire-israel-hamas/
President Trump said in an interview that aired Sunday that the ceasefire brokered by his administration between Israel and Hamas is in solid shape.
“It’s not fragile. It’s a very solid,” Trump told CBS News’s Norah O’Donnell on “60 Minutes.”
“I mean, you hear about Hamas, but Hamas could be taken out immediately if they don’t behave. They know that. If they don’t behave, they’re going to be taken out immediately,” he continued.
Of course, and probably surprising no one, Trump’s POV on peace is agree or annihilation. Between that and limited to no agreement on who would fund an international force to restrain both sides, I think things will continue to stagger bloodily along with no real peace prospects.
How does this differ from Israel’s perspective?
I think Israel has about the same regard for Palestinian lives as Hamas does.
Israel has historically been a lot more invested in protecting its own people. This Israeli government in which Netanyahu is more desperate to cling to power than he ever has been before and he’s aligned with nationalists who are much more extreme than the typical Likid coalition gives a lot more pause about the cynical, ends-justify-the-means logic in these conflicts but they’re still worlds apart from Hamas in how many of their own civillians they would sacrifice to achieve their goals.
Incorrect, Now if you substitute “Netanyahu and his right wing religious supporters” you would be correct. But the People of Israel want to war over and thing Netanyahu is going about it the wrong war-
“A special survey released as Israel prepares to mark two years since the start of the war on October 7, 2023 finds: 66% of Israelis say the time has come to end the war in Gaza – up 13 percentage points since this time last year. The top reason Israelis say the war should end is the endangerment of the hostages, among both Jews (50.5%) and Arabs (34.5%). 64% of Israelis think Netanyahu should take responsibility for Oct. 7 and resign, either now (45%) or after the war (19%).”
I could be wrong, but I think you’re doing @DeadTreasSecretaries a bit of an injustice. After the line you quoted, they go into detail about how Netanyahu and his nationalist allies are pushing a war and agenda that Israel as a whole finds excessive.
Which if the voters and citizens hold him accountable, means that there’s better hope for a lasting peace if Hamas holds to it as well, AND has the influence/power to prevent members of their own faction, or other extremists from taking action against Israel. Sadly, I don’t think Hamas has that degree of control. And so even with good faith from both sides (which I doubt, honestly) the peace can be broken on the Palestinian side of things by any dozen extremists with access to a few drones / missiles / anti-tank weapons.
And Netanyahu is going to hold Hamas responsible for all such attacks which, well, that’s a different thread. So again, I feel any lasting ceasefire or eventual truce is doomed. And as I worried about in my prior post (and again back to the thread’s origin) Trump seems perfectly fine with achieving “peace” by use of additional force, as long as he gets the win. In fact, I’d say his track history indicates he’d PREFER to claim the strong-man image of forcing a peace even if by destruction.
Yes. Also that while I think the Israeli government has a very low regard for Palestinian lives, they do place a high premium on protecting their own civilians.
I’m drawing a distinction between them and Hamas, who has little to no regard for Israeli or Palestinian civilians. I do think Netanyahu’s government is horrible but they don’t have the same nihilistic attitude to basically any civilians’ well-being that Hamas has.
Yes, I just wanted to make things clear.
Note that Israel has a parliamentary system. Netanyahu is not directly elected.
Good point.