# Should US high schools drop sports?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [September 19, 2020, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037 "2020-09-19T22:48:49Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 10
### Author:  [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)
#### Post date: [September 26, 2020, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/181 "2020-09-26T21:24:49Z")
> [@slash2k](#):
>
> > [@urbanredneck2](#):
> >
> > Also when a sport is sponsored by a school the school can use it as a means of discipline. for example a student who gets poor grades or gets in trouble can get kicked off say the football team.
>
> In the dim distant days of my youth in a small Texas high school, I was in algebra class with the quarterback. He flunked his exam, which meant under “no pass, no play” he was off the team. So, the principal simply informed the teacher that they needed him in the game, and his test score miraculously improved enough that he started on Friday night. (No, he didn’t retake the test; she just “regraded” it.) Guess what that did for the morale of the students who were actually trying to learn algebra.
I think the principal would get called out on that more today. It just takes a few people to squeal it on the web and people are less tolerant of it. But it all depends upon the school and much they hold sports dear.
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### Author:  [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)
#### Post date: [September 26, 2020, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/182 "2020-09-26T21:28:37Z")
> [@Sitnam](#):
>
> Sports are fine, but severely limit the amount of school designated resources that are involved.
>
> Parents and students want a bigger program? They can fund it outside of the education budget. The two shouldn’t conflict, at all, including employing coaches as ‘teachers’ for classes that are actually just baby sitting.
>
> ETA: I don’t see this as much different from religious schooling. It’s fine, parents can want it and get it. Just don’t make public resources the pocket for it.
Well actually sports ARE largely funded outside the school budget thru things like booster clubs, fundraisers, fees, and selling tickets and merchandise. Even my sons HS theater department received only a small portion of the budget from the school.
So again, I see this as a slow movement to take sports out of schools and make them private.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [September 26, 2020, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/183 "2020-09-26T22:31:48Z")
Also, children should not be encouraged by officials to regard kids from other schools as rivals or enemies to be opposed or defeated as a group. Tribalism may be a human instinct, but it’s one that should be discouraged by societal institutions, not encouraged. So, to the extent that kids from different schools play together, sides shouldn’t be drawn up on lines that support “othering” of one’s fellow human beings.
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### Author:  [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2020, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/184 "2020-09-27T02:27:49Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#):
>
> Well actually sports ARE largely funded outside the school budget thru things like booster clubs, fundraisers, fees, and selling tickets and merchandise.
Where would this be?
At said small Texas high school, the booster club paid for some extras, but the coaches’ salaries, the bus that drove the team to games, the maintenance on the football field (and the practice field), and so forth all came out of the school budget.
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### Author:  [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2020, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/185 "2020-09-27T03:29:48Z")
Yes, salaries are paid by the school. I dont know about the bus, where we lived the teams paid for those or it came from the activity fee budget. That football field is also probably used by several other teams that pay a fee.
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### Author:  [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2020, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/186 "2020-09-27T06:09:33Z")
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> Also, children should not be encouraged by officials to regard kids from other schools as rivals or enemies to be opposed or defeated as a group. Tribalism may be a human instinct, but it’s one that should be discouraged by societal institutions, not encouraged.
Every sport I ever played, the players on the other team were acknowledged and respected, and there were rituals like going down the line and shaking everyone’s hand on the other team after the game. And I’m talking about the heart of the Midwest, not some commune in California or something. At no point did I ever observe “tribalism.” If anything, sports take a bunch of guys from widely varied backgrounds and economic classes, and bring them together.
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### Author:  [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2020, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/187 "2020-09-27T13:26:01Z")
I experience that one more than once myself - actually with underage drinking and drugs, which should get you suspended from the team or activities. But only did for certain kids, other kids were allowed to continue. And it was supposed to feed into whether the kid was offered a varsity role next year, since a kid who is suspended isn’t a good bet - but if you are never suspended for it…
(And as an aside - anyone want to guess what color the kids were who got a pass - and which color the kids were who were suspended and then didn’t get a spot on the team the next year?)
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### Author:  [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2020, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/188 "2020-09-27T14:13:19Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#):
>
> > [@Sitnam](#):
> >
> > Sports are fine, but severely limit the amount of school designated resources that are involved.
> >
> > Parents and students want a bigger program? They can fund it outside of the education budget. The two shouldn’t conflict, at all, including employing coaches as ‘teachers’ for classes that are actually just baby sitting.
> >
> > ETA: I don’t see this as much different from religious schooling. It’s fine, parents can want it and get it. Just don’t make public resources the pocket for it.
>
> Well actually sports ARE largely funded outside the school budget thru things like booster clubs, fundraisers, fees, and selling tickets and merchandise. Even my sons HS theater department received only a small portion of the budget from the school.
>
> So again, I see this as a slow movement to take sports out of schools and make them private.
Not in my small town. The new Football field and all the supporting construction for it were a sizable chunk of the school remodeling/renovation referendum. All funded with local property tax money.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2020, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/189 "2020-09-27T14:19:21Z")
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> Kids can teach each other rules or invent them on their own.
Learning the rules of sports is a big part of learning how to play them. Being taught how to play them - technique, strategy, and so on - enhances one’s enjoyment of them.
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2020, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/190 "2020-09-27T16:52:46Z")
> [@Lamoral](#):
>
> Every sport I ever played, the players on the other team were acknowledged and respected, and there were rituals like going down the line and shaking everyone’s hand on the other team after the game. And I’m talking about the heart of the Midwest, not some commune in California or something. At no point did I ever observe “tribalism.”
Interesting. Here, it wasn’t all that unusual to see news stories about students from rival schools getting into fistfights over the rivalry.
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> Learning the rules of sports is a big part of learning how to play them. Being taught how to play them - technique, strategy, and so on - enhances one’s enjoyment of them.
Inventing and shifting the rules of games, and working out the rules among small groups of people actually playing them, enhances many people’s enjoyment of them; and may teach technique and strategy better than having fixed rules handed down from on high by adults.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2020, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/191 "2020-09-27T17:59:24Z")
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> > [@Acsenray](#):
> >
> > Kids can teach each other rules or invent them on their own.
>
> Learning the rules of sports is a big part of learning how to play them. Being taught how to play them - technique, strategy, and so on - enhances one’s enjoyment of them.
There’s nothing important about the rules or strategies of any specific sport. If your purpose is to encourage kids to engage in physical activity, it matters zero whether they get good at any particular game. Indeed, it’s better for their development to learn to make up their own rules as they go.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2020, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/192 "2020-09-27T18:01:16Z")
> [@Lamoral](#):
>
> > [@Acsenray](#):
> >
> > Also, children should not be encouraged by officials to regard kids from other schools as rivals or enemies to be opposed or defeated as a group. Tribalism may be a human instinct, but it’s one that should be discouraged by societal institutions, not encouraged.
>
> Every sport I ever played, the players on the other team were acknowledged and respected, and there were rituals like going down the line and shaking everyone’s hand on the other team after the game. And I’m talking about the heart of the Midwest, not some commune in California or something. At no point did I ever observe “tribalism.” If anything, sports take a bunch of guys from widely varied backgrounds and economic classes, and bring them together.
Yeah, two minutes of lip service to “sportsmanship” after spending an entire lifetime being taught to view fellow human beings as opponents simply for being students at a different school. Never impressed me.
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### Author:  [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2020, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/193 "2020-09-27T18:38:07Z")
Not in my large urban district, either.
Ypu also have to include the cost of the administration’s manpower. Principals and such spend a LOT of time on athletic programs, supporting coaches, dealing with problems, talking to parents. It’s a real cost.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/194 "2020-09-27T19:57:27Z")
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> There’s nothing important about the rules or strategies of any specific sport. If your purpose is to encourage kids to engage in physical activity, it matters zero whether they get good at any particular game. Indeed, it’s better for their development to learn to make up their own rules as they go.
This doesn’t make any sense. Unstructured play is an important part of a kid’s development, but learning to play sports - for which you have to learn the rules so that you’re playing basically the same sport as other people - is also important. It adds to a person’s enjoyment of life to know how to play sports; I know few people who DON’T get lots out of at least one sport, and you cannot just make up your own rules if you want to play with other people when they all understand a certain ruleset. I don’t understand why you’d think a person shouldn’t do both.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2020, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/195 "2020-09-27T20:47:33Z")
They can learn the rule set when someone who is playing with them teaches it to them—friends, relatives, pickup games. Or if they choose to join a private league. There’s no good policy reason for a school curriculum or administrators or teachers/coaches to be involved. And there’s no reason for official institutions to choose what games or rule sets are worth learning or dedicating public resources to. People can learn games on their own from the people they encounter in daily life.
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2020, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/196 "2020-09-27T21:00:05Z")
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> you have to learn the rules so that you’re playing basically the same sport as other people
True.
But learning – and possibly helping to work out – the rules of the particular people you’re playing with is a different thing from learning These Are The Rules According To The One And Only Rulebook.
We’ve already got way too many people believing There’s Only One Right Way To Do Things.
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### Author:  [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2020, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/197 "2020-09-28T01:34:26Z")
> [@slash2k](#):
>
> My high school recruited their history teachers based on what sports they could coach.
>
> (Seriously, every single teacher in the history dept was hired primarily as a coach; they fact they had a teaching license and could read out of the textbook to the civics class was a bonus.)
So did mine; every social studies teacher was also a coach (& also male). Social studies was my favorite subject, but I has warned against becoming a social studies teacher they them because I didn’t like sports. A (female) guidance counselor actually advised students that it was very difficult for males to get teaching jobs unless they could also coach a sport. The PE teachers were also all coaches; which actually makes sense, but the impression I get from the boys’ PE teachers was that coaching was their main job and they resented having to teach PE.
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2020, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/198 "2020-09-28T03:09:33Z")
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> Yeah, two minutes of lip service to “sportsmanship” after spending an entire lifetime being taught to view fellow human beings as opponents simply for being students at a different school. Never impressed me.
I was also in the orchestra and that’s pretty much how we viewed all other schools when we were in competition with them. The same was true of debate or Quiz Bowl. The problem you’re describing is endemic to competition not sports. And kids need to learn how to compete.
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### Author:  [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2020, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/199 "2020-09-28T03:11:02Z")
At my old high school PE class WAS basically practice time for whatever sport was on at that time like basketball.
Heck most of the time all the PE teacher/coach did was toss out a basketball and tell us to pick teams and play.
Now granted, that was then. I’ve heard thats changed alot.
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2020, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/200 "2020-09-28T03:40:52Z")
> [@Odesio](#):
>
> kids need to learn how to compete.
Well, yes, they probably do; if only in self-defense.
What they don’t need to learn is that competition is more important than cooperation; or that the only important reason to do something is so that you can win at it.
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